Newcomer in Auvergne

For everything specific to B&Bs as opposed to holiday rentals.
Charfoulet
Posts: 7
Joined: Sat Sep 12, 2015 9:55 am

Newcomer in Auvergne

Post by Charfoulet »

Hello,

My name is Mark and I am writing to ask if I can take advice from anyone regarding opening a chambre d' hote + table here in Puy de Dome, Auvergne?
My fiancée Celine ( who is from the region ) and I are hoping to start up a three room chambre d'hôte (I would be running it as Celine will keep her current job) and whilst we have read lots of things about opening up we feel that the best info can come from those who have done it before.
We own our home and have the funds to renovate the "businees" part of it and we can cope without a cent coming in for a few years although we would rather not! We would really like to see if the project is viable...
Any advice anyone could share really would be appreciated.
louloup
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Joined: Fri Apr 20, 2012 7:10 am
Location: Auvergne, France

Post by louloup »

I run a chambres d'hotes in the Puy de Dome (Job 63990) I have three bedrooms in a house renovated with the help of a grant from Gîtes de France. Where I am the season is short, mainly confined to the Summer months, but it does seem to be getting busier. Offering Table D'Hôtes really helps as restaurants are often closed, Sunday and Monday evenings even in the high season and it is worse in the Winter.
We are not a main tourist area so you might attract more visitors, although it does seem to be very popular with French people from the South who come here to avoid the crowds in Summer.
Gites de France was a good move for me, it made me focus on what was important, kept me abreast of legislation and offered training that I found invaluable. To obtain the grants you must have the work done by professionals and the project must be approved by them before you begin the work. So, it costs more to obtain the grants so the net gain isn't that much.
I couldn't live on my CDH income, but it does make the house pay for itself. I love meeting the guests and cooking for them. I target French guests, many who find me through Gites de France and they are really lovely. Since I opened in 2010 I have had one bad guest who sneaked an extra guest in and caused some damage t bedding, they were at a local wedding. I now only accept stays of 2 nights or more and have had more and longer bookings since I implemented that.
Do get in touch if you need more information.
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French Cricket
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Post by French Cricket »

Hi Mark, and welcome to LMH!

I'm not sure what kind of advice you're looking for, but I'll throw in four bits!

First of all, don't underestimate how long your days will be. With just two suites, we would start the day at around 6.30am making stuff for breakfast, finish breakfast at around 10.30am if we were lucky, get the suites cleaned by 1pm if we were lucky and guests had gone out, start cooking for dinner at 2pm, then apéro at 7.30pm, dinner at 8pm through to at least 11pm - and often midnight - then washing up and finally, bed at around 1pm. Somewhere in there has to be a space for washing, ironing, shopping, and in our case dealing with the vegetable garden and looking after the house and grounds.

Secondly, it's great offering table d'hôtes and it will certainly help bring you bookings - but don't expect to see a profit from it! Even doing it for four guests we would only just break even. Your guests will expect you to eat with them, and that in itself can be quite challenging (unless you like eating 4 course dinners every night, of course :lol: ) so you need to find a way of managing that - we'd serve ourselves tiny plates, often eating just the veg.

Thirdly, look after yourself. That means making sure you have enough physical space of your own, and ideally building in some time when the house is closed every so often to give yourself breathing space - say two or three days once a month. It's too easy to burn out if you don't do both of these things.

And fourthly, take out a subscription to Accueillir Magazine - it's expensive but will cover all the things you need to know. It gets a bit repetitive after a few years but it's invaluable when starting up: http://www.accueillir-magazine.com .

I'm at the other end of the cycle to you: I started my first bed and breakfast venture in the UK nearly 30 years ago; our house here in France was my fourth place. After more than 12000 breakfasts I'm hanging up my apron from next year and our accommodation will be completely self-catering.

Good luck. If you like people and love hosting it's a fantastic way to spend a few years of your life!
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Cassis
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Post by Cassis »

Offering table d'hôte will help attract more guests if you don't have restaurants nearby, but it is not much of a money maker in its own right and is a massive amount of work, making your day extra long. Unless you've got a decent number of guests "à la table" at once it probably isn't worth it, unless entertaining and feeding people on a regular basis is something you enjoy (like louloup). No harm in trying it, it may even be right up your street, but equally you might appreciate having your evenings to yourself instead.
Real name Phil
Moved to France in 2004
Likes ducks, nature, gardening, furniture restoration, DIY, rugby, blah, blah.
Charfoulet
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Joined: Sat Sep 12, 2015 9:55 am

Post by Charfoulet »

Thanks louloup and french cricket... really informative...

Where we are (just next to you louloup in St Dier D'Auvergne) the table d'hote seems to be a must as the restaurants seem to be a law unto themselves opening and shutting on a relatively random basis!
I want to set out time whilst renovating to make a plan... we are in contact with gite de france and they did advise us of the grant scheme but I am frightened of the "control" they seem to have??? I will take all the advise I can on them of course...
I have in mind a three to four year window to renovate and establish a business... does this seem reasonable? I am confident that the renovation can be done in 1.5 years giving me 2 or so years to establish... I am trying to be conservative as advised by many... can I ask how long it took to get your places "going"?
Charfoulet
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Post by Charfoulet »

Cassis - thanks...
I do love cooking... but I am guessing cooking for pleasure and cooking for business are two totally different things. I learned to feed up to 18 hungry chaps at a time as a young fireman in Manchester and if they didnt like it you paid!!! My father in law loves Lancashire hot pot and he is now convinced that rosbif can actually do a thing or two in the kitchen!!!
I think, only think, that I will have to try providing a table... jsut because of the issue mentioned by louloup... the restaurants can be erratic at times...
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Cassis
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Post by Cassis »

We moved in August 2004, got an architect to design the room layout in accordance with Gites de France guidelines in September/October, got estimates before Xmas from trades and work began converting the upstairs in February 2005 after planning permission came through. Work took about 3 months including decorating and furnishing and we opened in May-June that year. Break even came the next year. http://www.normandie-chambres.co.uk/hou ... ation.html
Real name Phil
Moved to France in 2004
Likes ducks, nature, gardening, furniture restoration, DIY, rugby, blah, blah.
JaneS
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Joined: Sat Nov 15, 2014 10:41 am
Location: Suisse Normande

Post by JaneS »

Welcome.

I am not in your region but I have one piece of advice for you: however much money you think you have in hand for living/renovation costs, triple it and be prepared to put in more as well. I was given this piece of advice more than once from people who did not know each other. This bit was written before I read FC's comments.

FC's wise words are to be taken notice of. You will need to do the table d'hote course to be able to serve alcohol with evening meals. I did mine in March in Caen and it was one day and cost €170. I hold a restaurant licence and had to complete forms for the Mairie, who sent them to the sub-prefecture, who sent them to the National Police and I had to attend an interview with them and repeat all the information they already had. My French is terrible, but I managed. I have not done all my figures but I think I made a small profit on evening meals. However, the businessmen liked them and they helped our reviews.

FC is also right about building time in to avoid burn out. I am closing next month and not opening again until just before Easter next year, because I simply pushed too far as well as a few issues which knocked me off balance in the last couple of months.

I truly hope it things work out and wish you well with your venture.
JaneS
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Cassis
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Post by Cassis »

Charfoulet wrote:I do love cooking... but I am guessing cooking for pleasure and cooking for business are two totally different things.

I think, only think, that I will have to try providing a table... jsut because of the issue mentioned by louloup... the restaurants can be erratic at times...
If it's something you enjoy it's definitely worth giving it a go - you will need to attend a food prep and hygiene course and get a drink licence for serving alcohol, but it's just formalities and those who've gone through it on here should be able to tell you how it works. [EDIT: See JaneS is on the case already!]

Some English friends took over a B&B in the next village from us and she had no problems with the course or the licence application so don't let it put you off.
Real name Phil
Moved to France in 2004
Likes ducks, nature, gardening, furniture restoration, DIY, rugby, blah, blah.
Charfoulet
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Joined: Sat Sep 12, 2015 9:55 am

Post by Charfoulet »

All... thanks really for all the words of advice... it is quite "daunting" moving slowly into this venture particularly given the advice to triple the amount needed... I will withdraw now if I need that much as I will never break even and my beloved will put the stops on things before I start!!!
Can I ask another question... does anyone know a good tax advisor / accountant that can help on set up issues???
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French Cricket
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Post by French Cricket »

Charfoulet wrote: I am confident that the renovation can be done in 1.5 years giving me 2 or so years to establish... I am trying to be conservative as advised by many... can I ask how long it took to get your places "going"?
We moved in in August and anticipated that the reno would take 18 months. The house wasn't by any means a ruin, but there was a lot to do to turn it into what we wanted. It actually took us over three years. We did stay more or less on budget, but only because we did the lion's share of the work ourselves, working 7 days a week for 12 hours most days. I took a tiling course, which saved us thousands, and an artisan friend taught me to plaster - ditto.

As to getting going - we advertised in January, opened in April, and were full for our first year (and have been ever since). You could say that we 'cheated' a bit in our first year though as we already had a mailing list from our previous place in north Norfolk, although the majority of bookings were new guests. We open between April and October.
Charfoulet
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Joined: Sat Sep 12, 2015 9:55 am

Post by Charfoulet »

Thanks all for your great advice... I am not put off just yet, I think the words are "cautious optimism"...
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