looking at buying which is the right track or miles away ?

[Nicolafaw]

Been lurking on here for sometime and just joined . You are all so knowledgeable.
I do find I often have more questions than answers from my random reading. These are questions I hadn't thought of but if am going to own a holiday cottage business will need to know the answers to ; big THANKS FOR MAKING ME THINK.

We are looking at buying in 12 -24 months after spending a few years now considering and researching.
After initially looking at the west country we then looked at East Anglia which I prefer I think we are likely to get more weeks bookings and not much less in weekly charge. Now the midlands have reared there heads , help?

Have however noticed some areas of the country are cheaper to buy but rental seems lower any thoughts ? on area that gives best return for outlay ?

Also considering an adults only location , not sure if this increases or decreases turnover if anyone has experience would be interested to hear from you.

I am looking at buying a farm house for us or similar with say 3-5 cottages and some other building that can be converted. and a few acres for veg, chickens and pigs

I do have intermittent mobility issues but am good with IT, accounts and interiors as have worked in accounts for 15 years and window dressing and design for 7 years before that.

Husband will help also with general office and help me with cleaning but he is not very handy. Will need help with a cleaner and maybe a gardener/handy man one day a week.

The business will need to keep us as a full time business From the figures I can find four 2 bed cottages should turn over 60k ish but struggling to work out what will be net profit after expenses. any ideas on net turnover?

my figures so far go 15k cottage 1 to pay the bills 15k cottage two to pay staff
leaves me 30k to live on.

Also wish to go 4-5 star gold end of market is this more profitable or would you say the extras required will wipe the profit out.

This move is about life style and health , I live in what most now call outer London or met land commuter belt and its not me , I hate the noise and the traffic.

I FIND MY HAPPINESS THESE DAYS IN THE VEG PATCH KNEE DEEP IN MUD AND LONG FOR MY CHILD HOOD WITH CHICKENS AND DUCKS
I come from game keeping stock and its beginning to show now I am in my 40s.

As I said the more research I do the more questions and confused I get. Really need to narrow location down from England.

[Ben McNevis]

How exciting!

I think you're being very sensible by not hurrying. And, as your question indicates, you realise that location is key.

Actually, instead of thinking location, think "destination". It has to be somewhere that people will search for when they start thinking: "where shall we go on holiday?". So I guess that makes East Anglia a bit of a longshot unless you really mean Norfolk Broads or close to Cambridge or some little spot that already has a steady stream of visitors. Creating a destination out of pretty farmland would be a struggle.

Having a well-known year-round attraction nearby is an enormous help, particularly for getting bookings out of high season. So, I would be thinking hard about attractions rather than a specific region.

In financial terms, you're looking at buying a substantial property. So, in addition to the profitability of running it as tourist accommodation, you need to think about the extent to which you can increase the value of the property.

Oh, and for your husband: it's never too late to start being handy! That's an important point because getting people in to do things has never been more expensive, but the equipment for doing things has never been cheaper and easier to use. You'll find how-to videos for everything on youtube.

[Joanna]

Welcome to Lay My Hat

I'm guessing from your estimates that you'll be mortgage free? We have two cottages, each two bedrooms, sleeps 4, and between them they make enough profit to cover their mortgage repayments. In a good year they also make a couple of thousand on top of that but not enough to make up for the hours I put in to marketing and admin (in case you're wondering why we bother - we bought them so we have somewhere to stay near our parents and siblings and also as a long term investment and possible retirement option).

We're off site so we have to pay other people for pretty much everything, apart from the odd bits of DIY that we can fit in over a weekend. If you're on site and can take on the cleaning, laundry, gardening, etc. that will make a big difference to your profits. However, it's physically demanding, especially with 4 properties.

I agree with looking for a location with an obvious tourist destination - easy reach of a city like Cambridge, or near the coast, Dartmoor, Cotswolds, etc.

Our first house is in Chester and gets year round bookings. Our 2nd house is in Devon and we found property prices there very high, we had to buy a 'doer upper' as it was all we could afford. There's also a lot more competition in the West Country and it's very seasonal.

[Nicolafaw]

Thanks for all the kind advice

Yes will hopefully be mortgage free looking at around 700k to 1 millionish for the property.

If 3 star up and running will poss. need to borrow for renovations to increase to 4 star gold or 5 star what are your thoughts on higher star ratings are they worth it or is upkeep cost prohibitive ?

Have been looking at properties for sale and seen a few 3 star but would want to bin the carpets add wood floors log burners super king beds etc all that have seen for sale are quite dated, nice but tired and 3 star. Higher rated lets than this are out of my price range and give me little value can be added.

If further buildings to convert may also need to borrow for this to add value to business and property.

I have thought about destination and in my opinion Suffolk is a destination like the west country but capable of more weeks out of season as less competition

For those living in and around London Suffolk is very close 45 mins on train from parts of the city it also has regular food and music festivals great for attracting those city of London folk. Norfolk is a tad further but has the broads and great coast. I have seen some properties for sale and thought not close enough to the sea distance from London is a consideration but no more than 20/25 mins to the coast is also key I think.

Shropshire, Herefordshire, Worcestershire and Staffordshire are other consideration as property prices are lower than Norfolk/Suffolk just not sure if it stands up to Norfolk/Suffolk where would the business come from ?

My other concern is would a group of barns be less attractive to holiday makers than an individual cottage ?

[zebedee]

When looking at 3* with a view to increasing them to 4* but in particular 5* the most important feature you need is space (ie physical size) of every room including the bathrooms.

its fairly easy to remodel a room, and add quality with furnishings etc but not so easy to improve the rating if the rooms are small in the first place, or space is limited.

With regard to a group of barns v single property - there is no single answer as to what all guests will like. People are complex beings and have different requirements. Just as well, as we all have different properties in different locations

You will hear different views on this forum about the Visit England scheme, but our guest feedback (we are 4 *) is that they like that the property is independently inspected and a particular standard is guaranteed (just going to get my tin hat now as there will be a deluge of people who will argue the same standards exist in their property without the rating system, and I do not dispute this).

I do think when you are new to the market, or if you are in an area of many holiday lets, it can help you to stand out a bit. You will also get some good advice from you freindly assessor, who will have seen a lot more properties than you can do.

[French Cricket]

Welcome to Lay My Hat, Nicolafaw. You have exciting times ahead.

I'm not in the UK, but one piece of advice I can give you is to have a really good read of this site: http://www.holidayletsforsale.com/ It's written by one of our members, Charles Cawley, who also runs a small local agency for properties in Shropshire and Herefordshire, and it (like Charles!) is a mine of information, not only about buying but about running as well.

[Joanna]

I've stayed in converted barns a couple of times and they can work very well for extended family groups, depending on the layout. It gives guests the option of renting separate accommodation for each family and still be able to socialise together.

The key is to have one large communal space in one of the barns that can seat everyone so that the groups can come together for a meal if they want to.

If each barn has it's own private outdoor space then you'll have the flexibility to either rent them separately or to large groups.

[Ben McNevis]

I have a lot of thoughts about this so I may chip in later with other things when I have found a way to express them clearly. For now, the thing that jumps out at me is the closeness of Suffolk to London.

Is that an advantage?

This is pure conjecture on my part but at least shaped by our experience of attracting guests to our big house from nearby Glasgow (1hr 20 minutes - which is a very short trip by Scottish standards).

The shorter the travelling time, the shorter the stay.

So, I guess the holiday rentals market in Suffolk is driven by weekend breaks and ... parties! The party house market is certainly worth exploring but it probably doesn't mix with the idea of 4* or 5*. It takes someone with a strong stomach to do the cleaning and maintenance.

The other thing about parties is that they tend to plan many months ahead, so you can find that you get weekends booked up before anyone has had a chance to book the same period as whole weeks. You therefore miss out on the longer stay guests that you would probably prefer to attract.

[newtimber]

Also considering an adults only location , not sure if this increases or decreases turnover if anyone has experience would be interested to hear from you.

I am looking at buying a farm house for us or similar with say 3-5 cottages and some other building that can be converted. and a few acres for veg, chickens and pigs

A farm location with animals seems very attractive for children - what are you intending to provide that would make it "adults only"?
Unless there is huge demand for this, why would you want to restrict your market? Demand during school holidays is high and you get the highest rental value.

[Nicolafaw]

Thanks all so much info

Zebedee , I like the accreditation system prob has its fault but what in this life is perfect. Good point re the size thing have considered some I have seen would either need re modelling to decrease number of bedrooms or a conservatory or something added for a luxury space feel.

French Cricket thanks for the welcome yes exciting but lots of studying on here , have seen Charles Cawleys site very informative. Aiming at learning to at least A level standard before I buy so studying here and sites like Charles's very important.

Joanna hadn't thought of the larger space point thanks/

Ben Mc Nevis SCARE ME! no parties is not what was aiming for more couples weekend romantic get aways.

[Ben McNevis]

Ben Mc Nevis SCARE ME! no parties is not what was aiming for more couples weekend romantic get aways.

Haha! I scare a lot of people... it's nothing personal

[Nicolafaw]

Newtimber I was thinking there are lots of people who do not like children.

There are couples who have kids but want a romantic weekend without kids around as escaping their own why would they want to listen to other peoples kids whine.

Was husbands idea and mentioned it to my eldest sons girlfriend and she said that's the sort of place I would stay and lots of my friends would too . She doesn't like kids particularly and finds them annoying I think.

I think my love of growing food meat and veg has nothing to do with my wanting a holiday let business its just the business gives me chance to have more space and expand my food and cooking hobby. I am considering selling excess produce through the holiday lets, but am not a fan of kids chasing chickens and I don't think chickens are either.

I am hoping to offer log fires hot tubs and four poster beds , country lanes and peace and quiet for adults. Living in the town it can get annoying the constant whine of little ones.

Please don't take this the wrong way I have three now adult children and a puppy and I love kids ,I do baby sit in occasions I just think sometimes the sound of other peoples is endless.

[French Cricket]

Well, I'm biased, I know, as I've run adult-only accommodation for over 20 years now (in Yorkshire, Norfolk and now the French Pyrenees), but I think it's a great market if you're aiming at couples or friends travelling together (or single people, who don't get much of a look in on the rental market). If you have several cottages on site, you risk perhaps frightening off people who want a quiet or a romantic break if they think that they're going to be surrounded by other peoples' yelping toddlers I don't have kids (choice) - I don't actively dislike them, but 20 minutes a day is quite enough for me and my tolerance level - more than that and I can become very crotchety indeed.

I think you'd find that there are a LOT of people out there who would go for it; some of our guests are child-free, but many are parents and teachers in search of a grown up break, or even grandparents fleeing perpetual babysitting duties!