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Planning permission / annex within home
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Gunwoody



Joined: 03 May 2011
Posts: 9

PostPosted: Sat May 14, 2011 9:47 am    Post subject: Planning permission / annex within home Reply with quote

Hi all,

We are buying a large barn property with over half an acre of land. We aim to use one end of the property for a holiday let. This will involve no changes to the property externally, just some internal re-arrangement. We do not intend to separate the services (water/gas/elec) and there will be a connecting door. So there is no intention to permanently make one property into 2. The holiday let part is all ground floor.

Our question is - do we need planning permission / change of use to use part of the property as a holiday let?

We are checking that the property has no restrictive convenants.

Thanks all

Gunwoody
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enid



Joined: 27 Dec 2004
Posts: 5614
Location: Labretonie France

PostPosted: Sat May 14, 2011 10:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

What is your location?
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Gunwoody



Joined: 03 May 2011
Posts: 9

PostPosted: Sat May 14, 2011 10:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Norfolk Broads.
- sorry for not mentioning that bit Smile
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enid



Joined: 27 Dec 2004
Posts: 5614
Location: Labretonie France

PostPosted: Sat May 14, 2011 10:27 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

We have the same set-up but as we are in France I can't help - we did need planning permission
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greenbarn



Joined: 30 May 2009
Posts: 5886
Location: The Westmorland Dales, Cumbria

PostPosted: Sat May 14, 2011 10:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You will almost certainly require consent of some sort, be it planning and/or building regulations, particularly as your property will be subject to the Regulatory Reform (Fire Safety) Order 2005.

There's a fair chunk of information from AKH here , although you will probably have to subscribe to get the detail.
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Gunwoody



Joined: 03 May 2011
Posts: 9

PostPosted: Sat May 14, 2011 11:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the link.

I am OK re building regs re any works, though there is nothing structural . We are just talking stuff like replacing glass internal doors, turning a utility into a bathroom etc - all being undertaken by contractors, not us, so any building regs etc will be covered. It will be done just like anyone else doing an annexe within the home for an elderly relative. Infact we almost bought a place that already had an integral annexe which had indeed been used in this way. The bit I can't seem to pin down any info on is simply whether any planning permission is needed to use a home or any part of it as a holiday let, leaving aside any building works issues.
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enid



Joined: 27 Dec 2004
Posts: 5614
Location: Labretonie France

PostPosted: Sat May 14, 2011 11:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can 't believe you won't need to declare a change of use aftervall you are intending to run a business
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Gunwoody



Joined: 03 May 2011
Posts: 9

PostPosted: Sat May 14, 2011 12:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well...

...when we were initially thinking of running a B & B we were told by the planning dept that permission for that was NOT required, and that's surely a business? You can see why we are confused!

Did all of you members (in UK) buy places that were already used as lets?
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greenbarn



Joined: 30 May 2009
Posts: 5886
Location: The Westmorland Dales, Cumbria

PostPosted: Sat May 14, 2011 5:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is considerable variation in the approach of different local authorities to change of use to a B&B, some apply the six bed rule, others do it differently. There doesn't appear to be a consistent approach for change of use to holiday lets either.

Building regs are likely to have a wider scope for a change to business use, hence the mention of the fire regs. For our properties, converted from an existing agricultural barn, the buildings inspector required sight of a fire safety report with detail of the alarm system, emergency lighting, escape routes etc etc. As a conversion, that was effectively treated as a new build of commercial premises.

As the approach and requirements seem to vary considerably between local authorities, the only way you'll get a definitive answer for your area is to approach your own authority.
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starcana



Joined: 05 Feb 2011
Posts: 150
Location: Cornwall

PostPosted: Sat May 14, 2011 9:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

we have exactly the same set up as you are proposing - ours is a converted barn attached to our farmhouse. However the guy we bought it for did the barn renovation and at that time applied for planning permission for conversion for use as a holiday let. We have a connecting door (as well as a front door to the barn,obviously. We have in fact put in a second 'layer' door with soundproofing in between the two as we didn't want it to be restrictive for us, or our barn guests. It works very well as if we ever stop using it as a holiday let, we can just open the doors and it becomes part of the house again. However we havebeen told there is a difference in planning permission for annexe accommodation and holiday lets, so probably best to check. You don't want to build up a good business, plan to sell at some time, but be restricted because you didin't apply for the right permission.
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Mrs Gunwoody



Joined: 14 May 2011
Posts: 3
Location: Norfolk Broads

PostPosted: Sun May 15, 2011 2:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi everyone

Mrs Gunwoody here Smile Thank you for all your replies so far. To give you a bit of history, we currently live in Yorkshire but have been looking for a while to move and have a new business in Norfolk, where we spend a lot of time sailing on our boat. We have an IT business which can come with us, but needed another income as I'll be giving up my job. Finally, after much research and for various reasons, a Holiday Let was the chosen option.

So, in our quest to find the right place we have looked at barns/buildings to convert, existing houses with outbuildings for conversion, existing houses with granny annex outbuilding and exisiting houses with an integral granny annex. We almost bought a detached place with double garage that had already been fitted out with a staircase and first floor but when we spoke to that particular local authority they said we would be refused permission for change of use from a garage to anything else (even just extra residential use/spare bedroom etc) as the current owner had been given permission to build a garage only and they would not extend that permission.

So we moved on from that but nobody seemed able to tell us/give us a definitive answer on whether planning permission is required to change an existing residential house into wholy or partly holiday let accommodation. None of the government websites, planning portals etc refer to this and I couldn't even find a listing for the classification of this type of use. That's why I was beginning to think that maybe there isn't one!

Our chosen area is covered by 3 or 4 different local authorities, and one part of the area has now had the planning dept transferred to the juristiction of a completely unelected government quango - The Broads Authority who look after the rivers etc and now decide on planning matters relating to properties adjacent to the river! Aaahh!

The house we have now settled on is with North Norfolk DC so we have been scouring their website this weekend for info. I will phone them on my day off later in the week and hope they are less vague in thier anwers than I have experienced in the past. Its already a residential property with many rooms (and doors) so all we need to do is close off one end with a connecting door, change a utility to a bathroom, and poss put a wet room in the main holiday let double.

Thank you all once again, and if you have any other info on this, or pointers, or comments (even to tell us how daft we are!) we will be very grateful.

The site is very helpful and we hope to become a part of the community here.
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Nemo



Joined: 14 Aug 2008
Posts: 7004
Location: Norfolk

PostPosted: Sun May 15, 2011 9:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Can't help you with the answer, but that authority is the one that covers me. Do ring them but they are an overstretched section, covering a very large area! Some staff are not much help; during my most recent dealings I was told to put it in writing, but if you manage to pin down the right person they can be very helpful!
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Sam V



Joined: 20 Nov 2009
Posts: 1610
Location: Villa in Gale, Algarve, Portugal. At home in Fetcham, Surrey, UK

PostPosted: Wed Jan 16, 2013 9:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Did you ever get to the bottom of this? We are in a similar situation having bought a house 2 years ago with a detached annex; a workshop converted with planning permission as 'the gardener's cottage'. We've been living in it while the main house was being renovated. I contacted the local council regarding our change in council tax while not living in the main house and asked the question of using the annex in the future for holiday and short term business lets. I was asked if our deeds stated that it was a 'granny annex' in which case we coud not rent it and I said no its on the deeds as 'a dwelling' but I was told this also meant it could not be rented. I've scoured the net for info on setting up a rental and can't find any info on this basic starting point.
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Running Chrissy



Joined: 07 Oct 2016
Posts: 35

PostPosted: Thu Jun 08, 2017 10:24 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have just phoned Cornwall council planning about a similar issue (not annexe or garage though).

I wanted to find out if we would have to apply for change of use when we start to run the house as a holiday let. They said no change of use required in that scenario. (phew!)

However I have read about a case where a very large house -sleeping 18 - was being used for yoga breaks etc and they WERE challenged by the council who said they should have had change of use. But our little sleeps 4 should be ok Smile
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akwe-xavante



Joined: 01 Jul 2015
Posts: 210
Location: Hornsea

PostPosted: Thu Jun 08, 2017 11:20 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Different building regs apply depending on the proposed use of the property/building.

Employing a builder to undergo the works is no defence if things go wrong either. The builder may get it wrong and if so the builder isn't directly responsible, you are.

It's the same with tax, you employ an accountant to do your accounts and tax return. If he gets it wrong you are at fault not the accountant.

Wrong I know.

The doorway between you and the FHL I think should be a serious fire door, I would also seriously look at the spread of fire under floor and through the roof space too. Install isolation valves and switches for gas, water and electricity too. I would have smoke, CO2, fire and heat sensors/alarms wired in a way that if there's a problem in either part of the property the other knows about it too. A fire in the FHL and the alarm goes off in your own residence too and vice versa.
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