Lay My Hat Forum

[lorca]

[joddle]

[la vache!]

I had a genuine cancellation due to a death a few years ago. It was a French group who were due to stay the following weekend and they had paid a deposit of 100€ and were due to pay the balance when they arrived. I was really annoyed when they asked for the deposit back - I wrote to them and said I was very sorry for the bereavement but in fact I could have quite legitimately asked them to pay the balance as well as they cancelled at such short notice and they wouldn't be receiving the deposit back. I know it was probably hard, but I'd already lost 300€ from their cancellation as it was too short notice to re-let and I didn't want to lose the deposit too.

[Normandie]

[Greenbarn]

Just to highlight the flip side, last year we had guests cancel at short notice, due to illness which I felt was probably genuine.

They were very apologetic.

They didn't ask for a refund.

They did ask for a documented invoice of the amount they had paid so that they could forward it to their insurers, which of course we supplied.

I know we all fall into a number of different groups here, ranging from letting a place for a bit of pocket money through to it being a main or only income. None of us is a charity, although we may choose to do charitable acts of our own free will.

How do you feel about the following; they're both going to lose you money:

Dear Owner
Due to a bereavement we will no longer be coming to your property next week. Please can you send us £300 as we don't have any other way of recovering the money.

Regards
Mr and Mrs Confirmed-Booking



Dear Friend
I am being in contact with you because a close relative in my family is just died.
God will smile on you and yours if you send us £100 and we will be happy to receive and will pray for you.

Loving regards to you
Smith Wesley Dr

ps ETA I hadn't read Normandie's post when I hit the button. It brings a harsh but very fair clarity to the discussion.
_________________
Our Facebook page

When Nietzsche said "What does not kill me, makes me stronger" he'd obviously never tried running a holiday rental......

[Jennywren]

Thank you very much for your thoughts on this one. I think if the email had been more sorrowful/emotional and less officious I might have been immediately forthcoming with a refund - I know that everyone's response to bereavement is different......

Your comments have been really interesting, we will definately be reviewing our T&C.s I had forgotten that last year we had changed them to include a recommendation of cancellation insurance and a link to a cancellation policy - it makes me feel a lot better, I will fine-tune it though.

I replied to Nicola offering sympathy and said that we would do our best to relet and that we would absorb the admin fees and any PayPal charges. We also offered to help with the paperwork for her insurance claim.

Thank again - Jenny.
I will post the reply if anyone is interested - I nearly included her full name when copying/pasting her email to LMH, is that breach of Data Protection??? could I be fined £00000's? - another string perhaps...
_________________
When all else fails - turn to chocolate.

[Greenbarn]

This is something that occurred to me, and I might phrase this question wrongly, but I'll give it a try. I'm trying to detach from my own views, which are variable anyway! (I don't always agree with what I say..... )

Ultimately what we do is down to our relationships with and for the benefit of our guests, for our own benefit, and what we feel most comfortable with so that we can sleep at night.

We all get cancellations, for various reasons, and we look at the circumstances (and as has been mentioned, whether eg they are repeat guests whom we know). Although it is very clear (at least in UK contract law) that a refund, less deductions, is only due if the property is re-let, and indeed the guest is liable for any unpaid monies, we may choose to act differently.

So, as a general rule, if we get a request for a refund should we consider the idea that by giving a refund we're increasing the perception in the minds of people that we're not the same as a hotel, airline or indeed any other business but effectively a soft touch, and by so doing are we therefore doing a disservice to our fellow owners' businesses? And to what extent, if any, should that affect our actions (or whether we sleep at night)?

The Guest is King, but if we all pack up and go out of business their Kingdom won't be worth a lot.

Very interested to hear people's thoughts.
_________________
Our Facebook page

When Nietzsche said "What does not kill me, makes me stronger" he'd obviously never tried running a holiday rental......

[Giddy Goat]

Yes, good point GB and while we're thinking about that, I will return to my earlier point in passing:

(these are both UK based companies I think)

[Mouse]

Excellent post Nomandie.

GB - my answer to your question would be Yes.

I do feel that many potential guests treat owners of property differently to other business owners. This shows itself in claims for things that they would never expect a larger company (or different industry) to cover. It also, sadly, is reflected in the lack of respect some have for the properties themselves.

I often wonder if the majority of people think that 'second' home owners are the privileged classes. 'Oh they must have money to spare to afford a second property' look at us, we can only afford 'xyz'.
No doubt that's why many feel expenses can be covered and extreme deals can be struck.
Why should profit be an issue when you can clearly afford a second home/house/apartment.

Having been brought up on a council estate I can see how easily it is for people to get in to that 'thought zone'.
Of course many work very hard to get the extras in their life, but I do hear comments from friends, who rent privately for holidays, about how the 'cottage' was left to the owners (i.e. in the family) and they decided to rent it out instead of leaving it empty. Or they sold a terraced house in London and could afford a huge place in Scotland.

So perhaps some owner situations muddy the water for some renters and they think money isn't an issue? Where as for many owners a profit has to be made to pay the bills.

With Hotel or B&B it is taken as read that it's there as a business to make a profit.

Just a thought (I'll get me coat!).

Mousie
x
_________________
One martini, two martini, three martini, FLOOR!

http://www.ownersdirect.co.uk/balearics/B965.htm
http://number21ibiza.promotemyplace.com/

[la vache!]

I agree Mousie - I think a lot of people think that holiday rentals are pocket money for the owner and they have no idea of the work or the expense in running them, sadly. Standards required are rising all the time, whereas people don't expect to pay more for these increased standards and profit is getting more and more difficult to attain.
Although when guests are here, they often comment on how much work there is involved in running the place and are staggered when they know I have a second job as well. Others just think I'm on a permanent holiday

[Mouse]

[joddle]

[CarolineH]

[quote="Mouse"]

[DaveN]

I think I must be far too soft, but I think I would take the hit in this case, especially for 'just' a weekend booking. I suppose I'm also in the lucky position where I have an income from my day-job, as well as the cottage.

As some have said, just putting myself in the other person's shoes.

Several years ago we had a very close relative die in the UK on about the second day of a two-week holiday in Italy. Of course we were on the first flight back.

Treatement from the companies that we dealt with varied hugely. Avis car rental provided a full refund including the days we had used. They were surprised when we brought the car back 12 days early, and when told of the reason provied a refund without prompting. The hotel we were in at the time just applied their T&Cs, and we had forfeit the cost, which was fair enough.

The biggest problem was with the insurance. The relative had a long-standing heart condition (for about 15 years), and had recently been to a heart clinic and been pronounced to be doing well. However the insurers took the line that he had died from a pre-existing condition, and so we were not covered. Nor presumably would we have been on amy other holiday in the last 15 years for which we had bought insurance!

So insurance isn't always the answer.
_________________
Open for business.

[lorca]