Lay My Hat Forum

[santamaria]

A while back on a similar discussion I felt a poster hit the nail on the head.They said we were selling a perishable product with a shelf life, or something to that effect.

This perishable product is taken of the shelf, once sold and paid for and now belongs to the purchaser. So I do feel that the person who took the product and paid for it, is liable, as apposed to the seller, who in good faith, sold them the product and encourage them to take out insurance to cover the 'inability to use' the product in the future, due to unforeseen circumstances.

For sure clear terms and conditions relating to refunds should reflect your position relating to refunds.

If the purchaser wants, we will try to resell 'their' product on their behalf, in the window leading up to the point the product perishes and is no-longer saleable. Or help with any paperwork relating to an insurance claim. However as a business we could not afford to refund a product that has perished through no fault of our own.
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Stay Happy and Keep Smiling

[tavi]

I'm siding with the non-refunders, though being a softie myself in reality I'd be struggling with the decision.


However, just to be irritating, and very tongue in cheek..... I'm imagining:

Dear Guest,

I am unfortunately going to have to cancel your stay in my flat next weekend. We have suffered a close family bereavement and due to this I am hoping that you will return the use of the accommodation to me so that I can provide space for my bereaved relations.

I no longer have the money you paid me several weeks ago as I have had to buy new shoes for my 11 children, and my husband was made redundant 3 months ago.

I am hoping that, in the circumstances, you will understand.

Yours truly,
Rental Owner

[Nightowl]

I''ve just had a cancellation for 10th November.... due to 'very serious circumstances'....

.. well, I'd advised travel insurance as I always do... so I've replied and said, very sorry to hear of your circumstances, you need to claim from your insurers and let me know what you need me to provide for you to pursue your claim.

Haven't heard back. Haven't managed to relet the dates.

I do have sympathy for anyone who has bad luck or a family tragedy before a holiday but that IS what travel insurance is for... if they don't take it, they've taken on the risk of losing their money.. I'm NOT responsible for making it good to them.

Also, I feel that if we just refund whenever people have bad luck and they haven't taken insurance, it invalidates our process of taking a 25% deposit and payment 4 weeks before arrival, they might as well just pay the lot on arrival and not turn up just if they feel like it....if they're gonna get their money back anyway...so why go to the trouble of taking any payments in advance.

I think Tavi does put it in perspective...if the boot was on the other foot, would it work both ways? If I took payment on arrival (or beforehand) would my guests understand if I blew out their booking because a better one came along (disguised as a family tragedy...)
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Nightowl
Forever going one step forwards and two
backwards......
http://www.homelidays.com/london/apartment-flat144480en1.htm
http://www.homelidays.com/london/apartment-flat190993en1.htm
http://www.homelidays.com/chiclana/house-villa70705en1.htm

[Nightowl]

Similarly, I had another cancellation a few weeks back for New Year, again due to family circumstances changing but I was able to rebook the dates (short a few days, but rebooked) and I have refunded in full...
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Nightowl
Forever going one step forwards and two
backwards......
http://www.homelidays.com/london/apartment-flat144480en1.htm
http://www.homelidays.com/london/apartment-flat190993en1.htm
http://www.homelidays.com/chiclana/house-villa70705en1.htm

[la vache!]

I'm flexible too. My deposit is non refundable according to the Ts and Cs, but as long as I can re-let at the same price, I refund in full. I had a very late cancellation in July that I relet, but at a much lower price and I didn't refund the deposit as I made a slight loss even with the new booking and the old deposit.
Likewise I offer discounts where the enquirer is very polite or makes me laugh, but never to 'what's your best price'?. The same goes for arrival and departure times. Although they are clearly stated in the Ts and Cs I will always do my best to accommodate early arrivals or later departures.
Its my business so I run it as I want.

[wallypott]

[Nightowl]

[Giles]

Hi All, I think this is a very interesting thread for a number of reasons. I am only in the business for a year (shortlet first birthday on 1st November 2011). My buildings insurers insisted I had T&C in place, so I had some pretty good ones from the start. However, I have had to "tweak" as "guest anomalies" have arisen. I have sometimes taken the view that my T&C's are not clear and taken a hit. Re the insurance, I both state that we "advise" (not insist) that they take out their own insurance and also tell them what our own insurance does and does not cover. I agree with other posters that whilst the situation of your bereaved prospective guest evokes sympathy the wording of the refund request doesn't quite ring true. I wouldn't therefore refund. However, (and my former life was in retail), where there is a bad situation, I would always look for a way to create goodwill (and extra business). Whether the "bereaved" guest is telling the truth or not, why not send your deepest condolances, plus a "voucher"(s) to the value of whatever, against a stay in the future. For example, you offer them, £50 (or x lots of £50), off a low season period in the future. And put an expiry date on it. They may or may not take you up on the offer, but it could be a win-win, in maintaining their goodwill and selling an unpopular time in the near future.

[HelenB]

I had a booking for last Christmas and New Year who cancelled due to a serious illness of a close family member.She did not ask for a refund of the deposit, but was so genuinely upset to be unable to stay, that I offered her a discount off a future holiday. As Christmas 2011 was already booked when she contacted me again, but took advantage of a 300€ discount on the price of a week in summer. She is now totally in love with the place, booked again for next year, and planning on bringing her nieces skiing next winter.

[Giles]

Hi Helen,
Yes, that's exactly the type of outcome which can come about. I have been really surprised at how successfully you can turn round situations in business that seem irretrievable at the time, if you are firm, fair and friendly (even if you suspect they are trying to take you for a ride and you're dying to be sarcastic).

If the "Bereaved Guests" are telling porkies, (and they may not be; just a bit inept via email), then sending a sincere response with a recognition of their sad loss and a "gift voucher" might (a) make them feel guilty if they are lying and/or (b) get a booking in the future. If they are trying the old return money then chq bounces scam (as per Paolo's caution) they will just go away!

Unfortunately there is a bit of a culture of lying to businesses but if you are a small trader or individual owner, of course it is hurtful to the soul & the pocket!

[Nightowl]

Good post Giles.
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Nightowl
Forever going one step forwards and two
backwards......
http://www.homelidays.com/london/apartment-flat144480en1.htm
http://www.homelidays.com/london/apartment-flat190993en1.htm
http://www.homelidays.com/chiclana/house-villa70705en1.htm

[Giles]

Ah, thank you Night Owl! Nice to be here and have a year's worth of experience; most good but some pain too, which of course I can learn from!

[Normandie]

[Giddy Goat]

Yup - clearly a fast learner!
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http://www.facebook.com/Gascony.Magic?ref=ts
"The secret of success is to get up early, work late and strike oil" John D Rockefeller

[Giles]

Oh, thank you Normandie & GG