Michel et Joyeaux André

Post scam emails to warn other rental owners, or if you are not sure if an enquiry is genuine, put it up here and see what others think.
Bunny
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Location: South of England

Michel et Joyeaux André

Post by Bunny »

The first one of the New Year for me......
It was BCCd from America and not sent via a listing site.
vitalisonlxxe@gmxil.com - well known supplier of fake Viagra according to google.
Return address different to sender's.

My Name is Michel André Am From France.
> My wife and I are interested in your Property for Rentals for the date
> below.
>
> Arrival Date: 14th March 2015
> Departure Date: 21 March 2015
> Guest: 2 adults
>
> I will be expecting to read from you soon and also have
> alternative date.
> please email me back with the total price and also hope we dont have
> to pay additional cost..
>
>
> Sincerely..
> Michel et Joyeaux André..
zebedee
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Post by zebedee »

Yes just found this in my spam box as well.
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kevsboredagain
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Post by kevsboredagain »

The from address is most likely fake, especially if the return address is different. Is that domain the source of a fake viagra supplier?

A little research shows that gmxil.com is a valid domain name which used to be a kind of search engine for some local area in the USA back in 2012. The website has now mostly vanished but a few incomplete pages remain.

It is most likely that this scammer has faked the from address and used this domain name. Perhaps the domain has even been hacked due to being dormant. So you have a possible scam email no doubt but the email address is probably fake and you have perhaps falsely accused the intermediate victim of the scammer of sending the email.

If on the other hand, you have verified the from email as being genuine, then I'm more than happy to be told I'm wrong.
Bunny
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Post by Bunny »

Kev, I don't understand how I can be accusing anyone of anything when I have altered the email address with x's. It was a gmail address. I accept that if I hadn't have done and the e-mail address belonged to a genuine innocent party then they could find their email address on this forum in a search. However, if someone had used my email address in this way, I wouldn't be so concerned at the content, but I would be more glad that I had found it and discovered that it was happening. Otherwise won't they be oblivious?
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greenbarn
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Post by greenbarn »

Susie Jane, you miss the point. You must never, ever, ever publicise something that you choose to suspect as a scam unless you have absolute proof that it really, genuinely, irrefutably, 100% is a scam.

To establish that, you must regard the enquiry as genuine and respond accordingly; if the enquirer asks to go ahead and wishes to send you an additional amount to be paid to a third party for expenses, you must go along with this. It is not until you have forwarded, from your own account, the additional payment, and then discovered that the original payment to you has been clawed back, that you have lost money. After reasonable efforts on your part to contact the original enquirer have failed, only then can you be justified in believing that you have been the victim of a fraud.

You may then post.

Of course, by then it will be pointless as it will be far too late to warn anyone else - they will also have been taken in and lost their life savings, but at least in the meantime you've given the criminal the benefit of the doubt.
Bunny
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Post by Bunny »

Well I could reply in order to prove the scam, open an attached document to give them my passwords, and send them the expenses, but I don't think the cost would be worth it just to be 100% sure. :roll: I would also then just get my email address passed onto other scammers in these organised gangs and targeted as someone who responds. Personally I don't believe in encouraging these people; I'd rather lose a booking.

Needless to say, I've not replied.
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Casscat
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Post by Casscat »

greenbarn wrote:Susie Jane, you miss the point. You must never, ever, ever publicise something that you choose to suspect as a scam unless you have absolute proof that it really, genuinely, irrefutably, 100% is a scam.

To establish that, you must regard the enquiry as genuine and respond accordingly; if the enquirer asks to go ahead and wishes to send you an additional amount to be paid to a third party for expenses, you must go along with this. It is not until you have forwarded, from your own account, the additional payment, and then discovered that the original payment to you has been clawed back, that you have lost money. After reasonable efforts on your part to contact the original enquirer have failed, only then can you be justified in believing that you have been the victim of a fraud.

You may then post.

Of course, by then it will be pointless as it will be far too late to warn anyone else - they will also have been taken in and lost their life savings, but at least in the meantime you've given the criminal the benefit of the doubt.
:mrgreen:
Bunny
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Post by Bunny »

Casscat wrote:
greenbarn wrote:Susie Jane, you miss the point. You must never, ever, ever publicise something that you choose to suspect as a scam unless you have absolute proof that it really, genuinely, irrefutably, 100% is a scam.

To establish that, you must regard the enquiry as genuine and respond accordingly; if the enquirer asks to go ahead and wishes to send you an additional amount to be paid to a third party for expenses, you must go along with this. It is not until you have forwarded, from your own account, the additional payment, and then discovered that the original payment to you has been clawed back, that you have lost money. After reasonable efforts on your part to contact the original enquirer have failed, only then can you be justified in believing that you have been the victim of a fraud.

You may then post.

Of course, by then it will be pointless as it will be far too late to warn anyone else - they will also have been taken in and lost their life savings, but at least in the meantime you've given the criminal the benefit of the doubt.
:mrgreen:
Casscat, we obviously share GB's sense of humour. Don't know if that's a good or bad thing! :? :D
Dhmellor
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Post by Dhmellor »

Yes, we got this too, and replied, and then got this response:

Thank you very much for getting back to me and I am very happy that you are able to rent your accommodation to us,my wife and I we are presently in Belgium and we going to be here for couple of more weeks I will Instruct my partner to send Crédit Agricole Cheque for 3200Euros its will covers for both the holiday and travel expenses base on trust,As soon as you have receive the Crédit Agricole Cheque, you would have it deposited into you account with negotiation process for clearance, you would deduct the full payment for the rental fee and i will tell you how to send our trip expenses to our traveling agent in London there after..

For the payment to be sent i will need to have the details below.

Your Name...
Full address:
City:
Zip code
Country :
Mobile
Telephone Number :

Michel et Joyeaux André
6 Chemin des Fougère -
17441 Sainte Marie de Ré
France


This is self-evidently a scam.
Bunny
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Post by Bunny »

Thank you dhmellor - no surprises there then. That's 110% confirmed it for me.
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kevsboredagain
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Post by kevsboredagain »

greenbarn wrote:Susie Jane, you miss the point.
No, Greenbarn, it's you that misses the point. If the from address is fake it is NOT the email address of the scammer but some innocent victim chosen for the fake address. For a phishing attempt, the return address would have been the email address of the scammer.

These guys must be laughing at these feeble attempts to prevent what they are doing. They chose a random name and fake email and you guys publically label it as the scammer. They are not the only ones laughing either.
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Casscat
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Post by Casscat »

This is not a feeble attempt to prevent what they are doing - no one here is naive enough to think that with the force of the LMH community we can put an end to internet scamming ("to infinity and B-E-Y-O-N-D!!") - it is a robust attempt to allow those new to holiday rentals to find a conduit to a source of information to back up their suspicions. I know from personal experience that I will Google dubious email addresses to see if anything relevant comes up (note the word 'relevant') and this has been what has taken many people to LMH and bogus enquiries just like the ones they have received. This is a public service, not a naming and shaming bin tarring innocent people. I know why you feel as you do Kevin, but your crusade is missing the target by a country mile.
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Nemo
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Post by Nemo »

Susie Jane wrote: Casscat, we obviously share GB's sense of humour. Don't know if that's a good or bad thing! :? :D
It's definitely a good thing. He has a wicked sense of humour that lifts my day every time. :wink:
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greenbarn
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Post by greenbarn »

kevsboredagain wrote:
greenbarn wrote:Susie Jane, you miss the point.
No, Greenbarn, it's you that misses the point. If the from address is fake it is NOT the email address of the scammer but some innocent victim chosen for the fake address. For a phishing attempt, the return address would have been the email address of the scammer.
No kev, I absolutely get that point. I didn't mention anything about addresses, I fully understand that scammers use fake addresses, and that they will change the address frequently and use temporary addresses etc etc. I also now recognise that an email address is a unique identifier, whereas a name on its own isn't. Obvious, but not until you pointed it out IYSWIM.

The point I was making is that we can't be 100% certain that something is a scam until some time after we've fallen victim to it. If we choose to deal in absolutes rather than "beyond reasonable doubt", then we have to accept that 100% certainty is an elusive goal.

The whole point of this section of the forum is to raise awareness within, but particularly outside of the forum; so if someone received an enquiry from Michel Andre and they weren't scam savvy, but nonetheless felt uneasy and wanted to check it out then they'd google the name and find it come up within the same context that concerned them. The context is important - there may well be thousands of real people with the name Michel Andre, but nobody of that name will have been sending out similarly worded enquiries. So the chances of offending a genuine person are minuscule - but absolute - the chances of helping somebody to avoid falling victim to a criminal are high.

It's a moral dilemma. The information you've provided puts another aspect on it, and certainly helps with a tighter focus when someone is deciding what to flag up, and how, and I think we've all learned something from your input (see my opening line! :wink: )
The problem I have (and I know I'm not alone) is that when I was fresh to the business, innocent and naive I received an enquiry that was really welcome, and would give some much needed income in our first year. I knew little of scams, but something about it seemed a bit too good (with what I know now it would be far too embarrassing to go into any detail :oops: ) and for some reason I googled the name of the person who'd sent it along with a couple of key words. My eyes were opened and my liquidity saved by the information I found; probably because of the key words I used, the site I hit was LMH. From the initial understanding of what a scam was it became much easier to spot them. We'll never stop the scammers, nobody could believe that to be a realistic aim, but we can help our fellow owners to find the potted experience they need to avoid becoming victims.

So you'll have to forgive me but I do think that getting a name (but not the email address) associated with a (likely, but not 100% proven) scam out where google can find it serves a valuable purpose, but I also recognise and respect your own viewpoint based on your experience, and have learned from it.

One of my NY resolutions was to not waste time producing longwinded posts on LMH.
Bugger. :roll:
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PW in Polemi
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Post by PW in Polemi »

Nemo wrote:
Susie Jane wrote: Casscat, we obviously share GB's sense of humour. Don't know if that's a good or bad thing! :? :D
It's definitely a good thing. He has a wicked sense of humour that lifts my day every time. :wink:
+1 :lol: :lol:

Greenbarn said "One of my NY resolutions was to not waste time producing longwinded posts on LMH.
Bugger. :roll: "
GB - surely you realise by now that NY resolutions are made to last about as long as your first cuppa of the new year? :lol: :lol:
Dogs have masters. Cats have slaves!
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