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costa-brava
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Post by costa-brava »

Cost €303,000 plus the usual 10% admin. On sale now for €197,500.
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Casscat
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Post by Casscat »

mario wrote:We have decided that the profit margin after all costs such as cleaning, gardening, pool cleaning, IBI, Urb fees non residents tax wealth tax etc etc along with this extra tax which I think is 20-25% of rental (less costs)is just not worth renting out any more.
There is no extra tax, or at least not for owners who were declaring their rental income in Spain and their country of tax residence as they should have been. If anyone is moaning about not being able to pocket non-declared income any more (and I'm not saying that's you Mario) then I have no sympathy at all.
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kevsboredagain
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Post by kevsboredagain »

costa-brava wrote:Cost €303,000 plus the usual 10% admin. On sale now for €197,500.
About the same purchase cost as mine then but my maintenance and running costs are way higher. The market is almost right at the bottom just now so I'm doing everything to hang on and avoid cashing in on such a huge loss.
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Sanchisimo
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Post by Sanchisimo »

Yes, I was about to add that there is no new tax. This is a new regulation for the tourist industry by the regional tourism department (not the tax authorities) and to be honest, welcome in my opinion as it sets some minimum standards and gives people choosing Andalucía as a holiday destination some piece of mind.

There is a little bit of thread creep here so if people find it useful, once we have successfully registered I can set out the steps needed to register a property in a coastal/urban area. I still don't think it is at all difficult once you know how.
costa-brava
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Post by costa-brava »

Sanchisimo wrote:
"There is a little bit of thread creep here so if people find it useful, once we have successfully registered I can set out the steps needed to register a property in a coastal/urban area. I still don't think it is at all difficult once you know how."

Yes, I take the blame for creeping off the topic of your thread Sanchisimo. But I did it intentionally. I am not in the Andaluz area as you see from my author name but I think that lots of people will rush to get this new tourist registration without giving sufficient thought to the economics.
There aren't any new taxes but the existing tax structure is not kind. The most significant factor is that you cannot offset your total costs against your rental income. Once you tot up the costs you can only offset against the number of weeks you have rented out. For the other weeks there is a fictional "imputado" earning that you have to add to your real earnings. Between costs and taxes, if you only rent for the peak summer weeks you are left with half or less of what you have taken in rent.
Then if you look at some of the requirements for A/C and heating etc. You really have to think it through BEFORE applying for the licence.
Sorry for piggy-backing onto your thread but I believe the economics are more important than getting the license. How many weeks do you visualize renting?
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Casscat
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Post by Casscat »

The economics are definitely worth examining, but if people can only make their holiday home viable by failing to declare their rental income then they are on a sticky wicket to start off with. The starting point should be 'can I afford to own this property even if I don't rent it out?' Most (but not all) people buy 'a place in the sun' out of a personal desire to own and use a sunshine home, not as a profitable business. If it can pay its way then great, if it can turn a profit even more great. From a UK perspective the first few years of a qualifying FHL are terrific because of all the allowable deductions (in the UK I would have a substantial loss, however now that I am no longer UK resident this is irrelevant) but as the income has to be declared in the country where the property is situated the UK's relaxed and generous tax treatment is of little benefit. My rentals season is quite long and I do make a modest profit. When I first acquired the finca I just wanted it to wash its own face really and minimise the personal subsidy. That it has proved more popular than I'd budgeted for is a bonus, but I always mapped out my figures based on a cautious scenario.
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Sanchisimo
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Post by Sanchisimo »

The economic viabilty of a holiday let is something you do before buying it not deciding whether to apply for a licence or not. We have been renting holiday lets for 15 years now. Initially as a means of covering running costs for a holiday home and for the last 11 years full-time as a primary source of income whilst living here in Spain. No it´s not a way of getting rich but it is a different way of life. I never have to go to meetings and I don´t have to do any staff appraisals. Joy.

The new city apartment is looking to be a all-year destination and we have bookings right up to the end of October. Last week we completed on a second just around the corner bringing us up to the limit. Yes taxes are higher here but other benefits outweigh them. Talking of which, off to Hacienda next week to discover how much we owe for last year.

So, getting back to the thread. The process of getting a licence for a propoerty that falls under the new regulations in Andalucía seems to be easy and straighforward. Sur in English reported that 4,500 applications were made in the first week since the 11th May. Just over 2,000 properties have been given a licence number so far.
Quiterio
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Registration...easy?

Post by Quiterio »

In our part of Spain (Cadiz province) the word was, it's going to be pretty nigh impossible to register. The first requirement is to produce your "Certificate of First Occupation". Nobody we know has one of these, and nobody at the town hall had any suggestion as to how we could overcome this first hurdle.

They didn't even appear to be aware of the registration law!

So ... had anyone in Cadiz province registered yet?
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CSE
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Post by CSE »

Certificate of First Occupation: http://www.spain-holiday.com/rentalbuzz ... occupation
The registration of your vacation let is done at the offices in Cadiz:
http://www.juntadeandalucia.es/organism ... cadiz.html
all laid out here.
http://www.spanishpropertyinsight.com/2 ... al-decree/
Never try to out-stubborn your guests.
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CSE
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Post by CSE »

This is a link to a local radio with the Spanish CAB (in English).
https://www.dropbox.com/s/leise2x4wxnb9 ... 0.mp3?dl=0
Very clear advise.
Never try to out-stubborn your guests.
brendan
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Post by brendan »

Quitiero..you´re right. Because of the current urban planning situation in a number of towns in Cadiz province (Chiclana in particular) it is impossible to get the vacation rental licence. The town hall(s) are perfectly well aware of the situation and just don´t give a damn.
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CSE
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Post by CSE »

And the links I gave in both posts suggest ways of getting over that.
The radio presentation is suggesting that you should not be renting out until you get all the paperwork done. Which is the best way here in Spain. But never that easy!
Never try to out-stubborn your guests.
brendan
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Post by brendan »

I repeat...
No licence of First Occupation = NO vacation rental licence
costa-brava
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Post by costa-brava »

Quiterio wrote:
"In our part of Spain (Cadiz province) the word was, it's going to be pretty nigh impossible to register. The first requirement is to produce your "Certificate of First Occupation". Nobody we know has one of these, and nobody at the town hall had any suggestion as to how we could overcome this first hurdle. "
This is something I have posted about many times. I know that each area has its own idiosyncrasies but basic Spanish law is that all dwellings (not just holiday rentals) must have a certificate to say that they are habitable. When a building is new (and legally built) it has a "certificado de primer ocupacion" produced jointly by the architect and the town hall. It is valid for 15 years after which you cannot possibly have a valid certificate and you then require a "cedula de habitabilidad". For this you have to contact a building surveyor normally called "aparejador" or "arquitecto tecnico".
The "cedula" also has a life of 15 years. If your property requires, for example a bigger water heater or an intervening door in the bathroom etc. the surveyor will ask you to do this before he will sign off on the cedula.
It varies in cost but in general should be about €100 for the certificate and €50 more for the "tramite" to the relevant government office. In the end it is the certificate from the government that counts.
I needed to have this done in 4 different properties before I could get a license but I had already done it because we also wanted to sell our properties and it is a requirement for all property transactions in Spain.
If you bought a new property the certificate you need will normally be stapled inside the back cover of your "escritura". If you took out a mortgage the bank may still have it. The other two places you may get a copy are from the builder or the architect of your property.
If it is a very old property there is no way on earth that you can get a certificate of first occupation but if the building is legal you can get the "cedula de habitabilidad".
BUT THE BOTTOM LINE is that , regardless of whether you want a license for hol-rents or not, if you don't have a valid habitation certificate you don't have a legally habitable house!!!
brendan
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Post by brendan »

Due to the PGOU in Chiclana it is not possible for any property in the ´extrarado´areas to get a cedula at present
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