UK In/Out referendum

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CSE
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Post by CSE »

But he’s so angry and embittered that his neighbourhood and his country have been subjected to mass unfettered immigration without the politicians even bothering to ask if it was OK
But the same happened in the UK when Idi Amin throw all of the people in his country who were of the Indian Sub Continent. Did he worry then?
I do agree that the UK has changed but the world has too. Something is just not right with the world any more.
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kevsboredagain
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Post by kevsboredagain »

I pay around double the tax on my Spanish rental income than an EU resident simply because I don't live in the EU.

Yesterday I wanted to buy a camera flash. It was 50% cheaper in the UK, France or Germany but because I'm not in the EU I could not mail order it without paying huge fees and duty.

To live here, I have to regularly apply and renew visas and my wife who is non EU spends more on visas to visit my family in the UK than on flights.

Life near the EU but outside it is not as rosy as people might like to think.
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Post by Ecosse »

bessie wrote: I will be voting leave not because I want to stop these people working in this country but because I am fed up of been ruled by unelected politicians unfairness in the system.M y thoughts are most of the trouble in the world is caused by politicians mendling .
I'm not sure I follow you, Bessie - how can voting for Brexit stop unelected politicians meddling? Brexit won't result in the dissolution of the House of Lords, or (though I wish it would) spur the UK into rethinking its first past the post system which has resulted in decisions being made by a bunch of politicians unelected by a staggering 63.9% of the electorate.

MEPs of course, are elected by us, into a system that isn't a first past the post one, so we shouldn't complain about the decisions they make on our behalf.
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French Cricket
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Post by French Cricket »

gitemontjoly wrote: I'm not sure I follow you, Bessie - how can voting for Brexit stop unelected politicians meddling?
I don't follow either.

The UK 'first past the post' voting system is just about the most undemocratic in Europe. It allows for a party to form a government that has the support of less than half of the electorate ... how can that be democracy?

I despair. Really, I despair :cry:
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CSE
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Post by CSE »

Never try to out-stubborn your guests.
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Post by Hells Bells »

Exactly who is unelected Bessie? We all have the right to vote for an MEP. They are our elected representative in the European Parliament. The European council of ministers has amongst it's representatives the elected Prime Minister of the United Kingdom. European Commissioner are appointed by the elected governments of the member states.
If it comes down to it, we did not vote for the Cabinet, they were appointed by the Prime Minister who most of us didn't vote for, as we can only vote for our MP.
The European parliament is as democratic as the UK one.
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CSE
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Post by CSE »

Earlier posted a YT link to a BBC documentary. Which was impartial. But here is one done made by a Dutchman.
Interesting facts.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cO4Ayo4mYZg
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bessie
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Post by bessie »

I have a vote which I wish to use ,right or wrong in my decision I don't know.
My reasons may be wrong ,you may disagree with me who knows.
Sadly which ever way the vote goes we will all pay a price one way or the other.
I have decided to vote out ,but I respect those who will vote in we all have a choice mine might be wrong only time will tell.
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Post by Jimbo »

bornintheuk wrote: Or is it just Eastern Europeans who kill and eat cats ?
Moliere wrote: Poland and most other East European countries didn't join the EU until 2004, and Romania / Bulgaria not until 2007. Is he sure it was them, rather than perhaps non-EU citizens that were causing his problems 20 years ago?
Mols and bornintheuk, I didn’t intend to imply that my BIL’s views were logical or factual but rather that they are impervious to (what I believe is) reasoned argument and counter facts. And that, in microcosm, seems to apply to a large swathe of the British public on the run-up to this referendum. The Leave campaign’s exhortations to 'take back control', the use of the immigration card and Gove’s appeal to ignore all expert views that favour Remain, no matter their provenance, have – if the polls can be believed – wide appeal to many people.

Ordinarily, this wouldn’t matter too much. If these views came from a family member and you wished to stay in contact, you’d likely ‘agree to differ’ and talk about something else. If they were held by friends or acquaintances, you'd probably see less of them in the future.

But, with the vote only a few days away, it currently matters a great deal. And perhaps many of us will find that democracy has a nasty sting in its tail.

Wasn’t it an American politician (with the unfortunate name of Dick Tuck) who said, when he lost an election in the 1960s: “The people have spoken – the bastards!”
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Post by e-richard »

What scares me most is the fact that our children's future is being decided by the UNINFORMED British public.

Whether its Cameron or Gove, Osborne or Johnson, we're being fed with a huge amount of garbage in order to sway our OPINIONS.

Why can't someone tell me what the RIGHT answer is ?
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CSE
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Post by CSE »

I am pleased in the fact that the campaigning has ceased.

But greatly saddened that first someone had to be murdered for the lies and spin stopped. I had never read about Jo Cox before, but she had touched those who she met, from both sides of the House of Commons.

Lets hope the democracy, as the UK knows it, does not change because of this horrendous act.
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Post by FelicityA »

e-richard wrote:What scares me most is the fact that our children's future is being decided by the UNINFORMED British public.
Well, excuse me!!! (Although I am Irish but resident in England for over 40 years...). Uninformed?? No, definitely not. We have lots of information and we have brains.

I don't believe the British people are as gullible as you seem to think and there is a lot of discussion amongst the populace, thrashing it all out and dismissing the obvious scares/lies etc. We know when somebody is trying to manipulate opinion. We just have to do a bit of research ourselves to get past the spin and the spinning of statistics. Why would you want to be told how to vote?? ("the RIGHT answer") Nobody has ever succeeded in telling me how to vote in anything. I decide 'the right answer' but it is not always as straightforward as that, as there ups and downs in any answer.

I know which way I am going to vote and I look at the FACTS including knowing quite a lot about the Irish situation (Cold hard indisputable economic Facts) in the past, which influences the future there and the future of its children and is an indicator of the power of the supra state of the EU.
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Post by bessie »

Are you saying the British public don't have the right to vote because we can't tell fact from fiction.
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Post by kevsboredagain »

FelicityA wrote:
I don't believe the British people are as gullible as you seem to think and there is a lot of discussion amongst the populace, thrashing it all out and dismissing the obvious scares/lies etc.
As a Brit who's not allowed to vote, it's definitely not what I've experienced. Posts on Facebook, from people I once had respect for, bashing Muslims or immigrants, pictures of Churchill with slogans like "make Britain great again", slagging off all politicians other than Farage and claiming that leaving the EU is the only way to "take control of our borders again" and stop mass immigration.

It leaves me ashamed of what my country has become. I've already removed what few funds I had in the UK as I expect the pound to crash following a Brexit. I can't envisage myself ever returning if that happens.
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Post by Hells Bells »

bessie wrote:Are you saying the British public don't have the right to vote because we can't tell fact from fiction.
It might be wise for people to actually find out the facts for themselves instead of relying on tosh from the politicians who all seem to have alternative agendas. Sadly many of them havev trouble distinguishin propaganda from fact.

https://fullfact.org/europe/
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/uk-polit ... m-35603388
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