Just got a letter from my Mairie - advice please

[ginelli]

Hi,

I just got the following letter from my Mairie:

"Objet : Déclaration des meublés de tourisme

Monsieur,

Vous louez depuis plusieurs années un gîte sur la commune de X

J ’ai l’honneur de vous rappeler qu’en tant que propriétaire exploitant un gîte, la loi vous fait obligation de le déclarer auprès de la mairie.

Cette déclaration s’ effectue au moyen de l'imprime' CERF 14004*02 que vous trouverez sur le Site service-public.fr.

Je vous prie d’agréer, Monsieur, l’expression de mes salutations distinguées."

Can someone please explain the next step I need to take? What expenses will this incur? What are the tax implications?

Here are some details of my situation:

1) My property in France is a Residence Secondaire
2) I live in the UK
3) I pay tax on my rental earnings in the UK
4) My gross rental earnings vary from €2500 - €6000 a year

Many thanks

[Dotty]

Not an expert, but....

You should have declared your place at the mairie using the form specified - its not onerous, as I recall not much more than names and addresses (yours and property). The mairie stamp it and you get to keep a copy. This didn't involve any cost to do the form.

We're resident in Uk too. We have to declare French rental income (ie rental payments for our French residence secondaire, wherever they originate from) via a French tax return, and pay tax on it to France. (You may want to take advice about which taxation scheme you should choose for France - we are regime reel, but some use simplified - depends on amount of income and expenses which is better). We then also have to complete a UK tax return with that rental income included and state the amount of tax paid to France in appropriate place on that, for UK to then decide how much to take too.

[ginelli]

Thanks for the reply

Do you do your own French tax return or do you employ an accountant?

[ginelli]

If there is anyone out there who can advise how to make this whole process as simple and hassle-free as possible, it would be greatly appreciated

[Mas Nialgue]

I use Mike Bygrave of The Money Bureau http://www.moneybureau.co.uk/ who specialises in bookeeping for rental properties in France.

You should declare your income in France AND in the UK where under current regulations any tax paid in France is deducted from your UK tax under the double taxation agreement.

But with Brexit who knows........

[ginelli]

Thanks Mas B. I'll keep that in mind. What kind of fee does he charge, if you don't mind me asking?

I'm hoping to avoid paying for an accountant tbh. I do my own tax returns in the UK and it would seem a false economy to pay someone to do my french-side accounts for one small property that only grosses around €4000 a year

Is there anyone out there in a similar situation to me and who does their own french tax return?

[Mas Nialgue]

About 300 euros, good luck if you attempt it yourself!

[paolo]

I don't think you would have any tax to pay if you are grossing 4000, it is in the zero tax band.

The implication of declaring yourself at the mairie is that you will then be chased up for your taxe de sejour payments.

[ginelli]

If it falls within the zero tax band, do you know of any way I could forgo doing a French tax return? (as you can see I'm desperate to avoid any further dull paperwork and bureaucracy in my life!)

Is there any way I can avoid declaring myself at the Mairie? Other than to stop renting out my home

And how does payment of taxe de sejour work? Is this in the form of a tax return or do I simply do a virement to the mairie?

[paolo]

If you rent a house in France you have to declare that in France. I don't know whether you can skip this because your earnings are too low, you need to visit a French accountant for advice. An initial visit for advice probably won't cost you anything, usually they charge once they are doing your returns.

You can simply ignore the letters from the mairie, but up to you to decide if that is a good idea.

How taxe de sejour is paid varies by commune. They will tell you at the mairie.

[vacancesthezan]

There is a minimum below which you dont have to declare your income in France but it is hundreds and not thousands.

Think also that there may be CSG to pay as well? Feel sure that someone who knows more about it will be able to say.

Yes and Taxe de sejour

[Villarais]

I am sure you have to fill in the form - as Dotty says, there is not much to it, just your name and address, and the address you are renting, and which months, if it is not year round, oh and how many you can sleep. The form became a requirement a few years ago, and fortunately I was alerted to it on here. What happens next seems to vary according to location - in my case absolutely nothing, I am sure that the form has gone no further than the filing system at the mairie (the French love their pieces of paper). Other people have been approached to see if they want to be classified or not - you don't have to be unless you can see some advantage in it.
Regarding the French tax form, it is quite easy, so if you already do a UK one, the French one will be easier (except that it is in French).
There are no expenses with the Meublés de Tourism form, and curiously my mairie wants a new form each year (even though nothing has changed). I am not sure anyone else has to do that though.

[Frenchlady]

At last the French are catching up with the Brits who come out to France, open up a holiday rental property and plead they know nothing about having to register the property, fill in a French tax form and pay the local tax sejour (collected from their guests not the owners money!!). We see this time and time again. So easy to fill in a French tax return if you have a gite, just one box to put your earnings in. There is so much on the internet now about what you need to do that there is really no excuse. Sorry, but sick of seeing Brits do their own thing when the rest of us are paying our dues and collecting the tax sejour from our guests. We all benefit from the money that goes back into the communes. It would be so, so easy for the French to check the rental sites, pop in the owners name on their computer and see if they have ever paid tax in France. Most of course would not pay any with the low income a rental provides. Brits all moan about the immigrants not playing the game in the UK .........

[paolo]

Sorry, but sick of seeing Brits do their own thing when the rest of us are paying our dues and collecting the tax sejour from our guests

My experience is that a French owner is more likely not to pay the taxe de sejour than a British owner.

Brits all moan about the immigrants not playing the game in the UK .........

No we don't, any more than the French ALL eat frog's legs and wear strings of onions around their necks.

[Bassman]

Sorry, but sick of seeing Brits do their own thing when the rest of us are paying our dues and collecting the tax sejour from our guests

My experience is that a French owner is more likely not to pay the taxe de sejour than a British owner.

Brits all moan about the immigrants not playing the game in the UK .........

No we don't, any more than the French ALL eat frog's legs and wear strings of onions around their necks.

+1
Sorry 'Frenchlady' in my experience you have got that around the wrong way!