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Guests bringing untested appliances

 
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sparkJS



Joined: 27 Nov 2016
Posts: 19
Location: North Cornwall

PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2017 10:28 am    Post subject: Guests bringing untested appliances Reply with quote

I'm just doing my own fire risk assessment at the moment and the risk levels seem fairly low however I could see a scenario where guest bring their own electrical appliances with them including chargers bought online and not tested. Like the dodgy hoverboards and iphone charges sold on the cheap.

Does anyone offer instructions to guests in respect of bringing electrical items with them?
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Woz



Joined: 14 Nov 2016
Posts: 18
Location: Moreton in Marsh, Cotswolds

PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2017 12:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have a clause in my property terms and conditions which states...

"All portable electrical appliances inside the Property have been tested and approved within the terms of the Fire Assessment Regulations. As the use of the Guest’s own personal electrical equipment is out of the Owner’s control, it must be used at the Guest’s own risk."

Hope this helps
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bornintheuk



Joined: 12 Jun 2011
Posts: 416
Location: Southern Charente

PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2017 5:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Its probably more important to find out what your insurance companies stance is in case of damage caused by guests appliances. Would they use it as a "get out" clause and refer to some passage in the "small print" if an event happened ?
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ianh100



Joined: 10 Jan 2013
Posts: 459
Location: Sherborne Dorset

PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2017 6:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am pretty sure we have discussed testing here before. For most of us we are not obliged to complete official PAT testing. I did to start with but now just do a regular visual check as that is a big part of the PAT testing anyway. Looking for damaged wires, cracks in casings etc.

I am not sure how an insurance company could avoid paying out based on what a guest brought with them. Perhaps I should ban Samsung tablets as they have a known fire risk. Wink
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sparkJS



Joined: 27 Nov 2016
Posts: 19
Location: North Cornwall

PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2017 8:41 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am getting slightly annoyed with this. I have recently bought the property and I have contacted the company who did the last PAT tests and fire risk assessment etc and I've booked them in to do the PAT tests again. They made me aware that I need the fire extinguisher serviced, smoke detectors in every room and emergency lighting. Most of this is kind of in place but could be improved and I get 'graded' by the agents based on stuff like this.

I know that servicing the extinguishers is just weighing it and visual check so I will do this anyway. But if anything were to happen then a lack of testing could be blamed so I'd prefer to be compliant.

Most of these companies always maximise revenue by insisting that their interpretation is required. My office has got more fire extinguishers than people!
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ianh100



Joined: 10 Jan 2013
Posts: 459
Location: Sherborne Dorset

PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2017 8:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi SparkJS

Are you using a listing agency that is insisting you do these things? I would not suggest that checking all of these things regularly is not essential but as far as I am aware you don't legally have to pay an external company to do most of it. PAT testing is not a legal requirement for FHL but it would be foolish no to regularly make a visual check and perhaps document when it has been done.
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casasantoestevo



Joined: 06 Nov 2006
Posts: 3791
Location: O Saviñao, Galicia

PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2017 9:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wozzaturner wrote:
I have a clause in my property terms and conditions which states...

"All portable electrical appliances inside the Property have been tested and approved within the terms of the Fire Assessment Regulations. As the use of the Guest’s own personal electrical equipment is out of the Owner’s control, it must be used at the Guest’s own risk."

Hope this helps

and under the UK law is this a reasonable T&C?
We all have phones, laptops and other devices to recharge. Some threads are now writing about EV or hybrids being recharged. In the end it will be your property that could end up being damaged too.
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sparkJS



Joined: 27 Nov 2016
Posts: 19
Location: North Cornwall

PostPosted: Wed Aug 30, 2017 9:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ianh100 wrote:
Hi SparkJS

Are you using a listing agency that is insisting you do these things? I would not suggest that checking all of these things regularly is not essential but as far as I am aware you don't legally have to pay an external company to do most of it. PAT testing is not a legal requirement for FHL but it would be foolish no to regularly make a visual check and perhaps document when it has been done.


I've inherited a very expensive marketing/sales agent who comes out and Grades their properties. They are not great at telling me specifically what they need me to have but on the phone said they will be checking these kind of things as well as basing it on the normal facilities available.
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newtimber



Joined: 24 Nov 2012
Posts: 1505
Location: Brighton

PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 5:54 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

wozzaturner wrote:
I have a clause in my property terms and conditions which states...

"....As the use of the Guest’s own personal electrical equipment is out of the Owner’s control, it must be used at the Guest’s own risk."

Hope this helps


This gives the impression that your electrics may damage the guest's electrical equipment ie the installation is unusual or not compliant with current regulations.

If their own equipment is such that it is that dangerous and is unearthed for example, then I'm not quite sure why you are even mentioning it as it would clearly be at their risk. We all stay in hotels and plug in our phone chargers and don't expect the hotel to be liable if our phone explodes. Why mention it at all?

In so far as the fire risk assessment is concerned, if their device is faulty or indeed if your device is faulty (it can fail a day after you've tested it!) you need to make sure that they can get out safely.
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SW31



Joined: 04 Jul 2014
Posts: 43
Location: Haute Garonne, France

PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 8:30 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

We had one lot that we know had some personal but commercial grade electric stuff. After they tripped our three phase system they didn't do it again. They looked a bit sheepish!
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Giraffe



Joined: 26 Jun 2016
Posts: 309
Location: Cornwall, England

PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 10:04 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

High sparkJS. Risk assessment will help you reduce risk, but you can never eliminate it. As we know, some guests leave their brains behind when they go on holiday.
I take the view that visitor safety is my TOP PRIORITY. Some measures I have put in place are above the legal requirements but my visitors find them reassuring, especially after Grenfell.

Measures in place include:
. Annual risk assessment
. Clear health/safety/fire guidance and evacuation procedures
. Interconnected smoke/fire alarm system throughout the house
. Carbon monoxide detector
. Emergency lighting
. Fire extinguishers and blankets at strategic points throughout the house
. Regular checks by electrician

It's a lot of work and money up front, but in my book well worth it. Fires are rare but can be disastrous. The key objective is to make residents aware of the emergency and get them to safely evacuate as quickly as possible. Don't forget that the alarm systems need to be checked at each changeover.
Good luck with your venture.
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casasantoestevo



Joined: 06 Nov 2006
Posts: 3791
Location: O Saviñao, Galicia

PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 10:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

All of this worry and obedience by the "entroperner".
However, when it comes to social housing and big money who gives a F., until there is a fire. Odd that there was seemly no assessments/checks/procedures that were adhered to before the disaster. Plus no visits to check that there were any plans put in place either.
It is far from a level playing field we are on and a lot of the time it is "us, the entrepreneur", who are frustrated the most in trying to adhere to the laws.
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GillianF



Joined: 20 Aug 2012
Posts: 642
Location: Dordogne

PostPosted: Thu Aug 31, 2017 2:04 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

As I'm not in the UK I shouldn't really comment on this thread but a couple of things occur to me.

1. Someone says that we all stay in hotels and charge our phones etc. and if the hotel electrics damaged our phone/charger/whatever would we expect the hotel to be liable. Well, I think in this day and age of everyone thinking everything must be someone else's fault but their own and everyone being litigous that some people would blame the hotel.

2. An insurance company will wriggle out of paying out if there is any chance, any loophole, any small print they can use to do so.

Just being cycnical!
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akwe-xavante



Joined: 01 Jul 2015
Posts: 205
Location: Hornsea

PostPosted: Fri Sep 01, 2017 2:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would get a trusted local electrician to do the pat test and install a modern consumer unit if one isn't already in place.

I'd wouldn't touch a company that specialises in fire, risk and safety testing etc.

Get a local trusted corgi registered gas fitter to do a gas test for you and in the process he'll tell you what CO2, fire and smoke alarms you'll need. Usually CO2 sensors in all rooms where there is a gas appliance. One or possible two smoke / heat sensors, that's it.

Your risk assessment is basic honest common sense on your part really in my opinion.

Specialised companies who do this all for you are in it to make as much money out of you as they can, to be fair though you'll probably be over compliant, BUT at the end of the day you'll sign a contract that makes sure they are not liable if things do go wrong. You won't be able to go back to them and claim for somebodies death, they'll make sure of that.

There's not a lot you can do about your guests own electrical appliances except protect your property and therefore your guests by having a modern consumer unit in place and smoke and fire censors as appropriate.

Telling your guests not to use non compliant electric devices won't stop them from using them as they don't know whether they are compliant or not and they won't care either.

"It works OK at home so it's fine"
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