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Basing website on one you have seen
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marcus



Joined: 03 Jun 2005
Posts: 631
Location: Lot-Garonne / Dordogne borders

PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2005 5:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Further to the above I had a look at the hypergurl code and tried to convert it to a separate CSS file.

All well and easy, except the line "filter:shadow(color:gray);".
The CSS doesn't work without this, but although it works fine with this line included, it is shown as an error (in Style Master), and isn't listed as a recognised command

Is this a valid CSS line of code? What does it mean? Is 'filter' a recognised instruction?

Thanks for your help
Marcus
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Garri



Joined: 11 Jul 2005
Posts: 1717

PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2005 7:37 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Garri, I tinkered about with the alistapart information and got my photos to render a shadow in some browsers but not in others. Did you manage to implement it successfully?


Reddevil, I haven't implemented it because I think drop shadows look naff. They looked cool in 1996 though Wink
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Birdbox Media
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Chalky



Joined: 13 Aug 2005
Posts: 135
Location: La Duquesa, Costa del Sol

PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2005 9:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
More curiously the hypergurl page recommended below, when seen in Firefox, proudly announces ' 'This is an example of the shadow filter in action...' and so on, but no shadows are appearing at all.
Works OK in IExplorer though. So possibly the same problem?

I'd love to know how to do it for all browsers.

In my experience Firefox doesn't recognise most CSS coding, which is a PITA. Fortunately most of our customers probably use IE.
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Chalky

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Garri



Joined: 11 Jul 2005
Posts: 1717

PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2005 10:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
In my experience Firefox doesn't recognise most CSS coding, which is a PITA. Fortunately most of our customers probably use IE.


With all due respect, that is utter codswallop!

Chalky, I would be more inclined to trust the css code as described in the A List Apart article, given that this publication is written by web design/css pioneers such as Jeffrey Zeldman and Eric Meyer, than I would from a site I've never heard of.

But hey, that's me!
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Chalky



Joined: 13 Aug 2005
Posts: 135
Location: La Duquesa, Costa del Sol

PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2005 11:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
With all due respect, that is utter codswallop!

Which bit, the bit about Firefox not recognising CSS - which is 100% true in my experience - or the bit about customers using IE Question

I have written various CSS scripts for my web site, following "Code Punk's" tutorials - http://codepunk.hardwar.org.uk/index.htm - which seem to me to be entirely 'kosher', and Firefox doesn't recognise any of them.

Quote:
I would be more inclined to trust the css code as described in the A List Apart article, given that this publication is written by web design/css pioneers such as Jeffrey Zeldman and Eric Meyer,

I was not arguing against the efficacy of the ListApart article. However, you need Photoshop or similar to create a shadow in the first place, and even then the procedure does not appear that simple to the likes of me, with relatively little programming knowledge.
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Chalky

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Alan Knighting



Joined: 18 Oct 2004
Posts: 4170
Location: Monflanquin, Lot-et-Garonne, France

PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2005 12:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Garri,
Quote:
With all due respect, that is utter codswallop!

Codswallop isn't a value for a function applied to an element but perhaps it should be then we could all go to bed.

I don't care what Firefox recognises or doesn't recognise. What is important is how a browser renders or does not render the code it is given and that's a real bag of worms.

If anyone is insistent that their website displays and prints consistently whatever the platform and whatever the operating system and whatever the browser and whatever the reading device they had better do it all in PDF format. Right now there is no alternative, but does it really matter?

Alan
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Garri



Joined: 11 Jul 2005
Posts: 1717

PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2005 3:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chalky, given that most of the websites I visit are designed upon web standards they appear perfectly on my computers, across 2 platforms (PC & Mac) and on a variety of browsers (Firefox, IE and Safari), all coded with css for presentation, semantically structured, I find it amazing that anyone would think that Firefox doesn't recognise most css - it's an absurd assertion if you don't mind me saying.

I rarely visit sites these days which are not built on web standards - or rather have web standards built into their very fabric e.g. weblogs. I am not interested either in websites that do not have rss feeds. RSS is going to become a crucial aspect in our on-line lives soon - once people understand it and can see the benefits.

I will say though, that having compared some beautifully designed websites on a PC and Mac, side by side, the sites are presented exactly the same but for some reason they look better on the Mac - fonts look sharper, crisper and colours more vibrant. But like I said, the presentational layer i.e. the css code behind these sites acts consistently on both platforms (for the sample sites I've looked at)
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Chalky



Joined: 13 Aug 2005
Posts: 135
Location: La Duquesa, Costa del Sol

PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2005 6:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Garri,

Quote:
I rarely visit sites these days which are not built on web standards

I visit sites for their content, not their construction. Clearly, if the content isn't readable then the whole point of the site is lost, but otherwise, who cares how "well" it is constructed?

Some of us cannot justify purchasing expensive software to ensure that their coding is up to "Web Standard" and have to learn by trial and error. Your 'hi-falutin' attitude doesn't offer us much encouragement.
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Chalky

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Alan Knighting



Joined: 18 Oct 2004
Posts: 4170
Location: Monflanquin, Lot-et-Garonne, France

PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2005 6:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Garri,

Do you agree or disagree?

Some people write their code to comply with "Transitional" standards because it's easy and works OK for now. Others write their code to "Strict" standards because it works OK for now and will continue to work in the future.
HTML standards are pretty well set in stone whereas CSS standards are continuously developing.

Browser support is concentrating on "Strict" CSS standards.

Alan
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Garri



Joined: 11 Jul 2005
Posts: 1717

PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2005 6:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I visit sites for their content, not their construction.


Bingo! That's exactly the same reason I visit websites, they all seem to be weblogs these days as that's the format where the most up to the minute content seems to be appearing. The fact they are well constructed and behave consistently in most browsers is a bonus.

Do you really think that Firefox can't recognise most css?

Alan, I understand the merits for transitional vs strict, sure. But my problem is with barmy comments such as Firefox can't recognise most css - totally and utterly ludicrous (sorry to be so hi-falutin but I can't tolerate such nonsense)

Btw, one doesn't need any expensive software to ensure your coding is up to web standards. You can use a simple text editor, which is free!
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Alan Knighting



Joined: 18 Oct 2004
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Location: Monflanquin, Lot-et-Garonne, France

PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2005 6:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Garri,

I know you are right but tell that to the "trendies" who infest the Internet. They will not even understand what you are talking about.

Alan
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Chalky



Joined: 13 Aug 2005
Posts: 135
Location: La Duquesa, Costa del Sol

PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2005 7:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have no wish to continue this rather pathetic little argument, but I originally said "in my experience Firefox doesn't recognise ...." My experience is confined to my own programming on my own web site. The comments above by reddevil and marcus suggest that I'm not entirely alone.

Quote:
one doesn't need any expensive software to ensure your coding is up to web standards. You can use a simple text editor, which is free!

The editor is free, but it takes trial and error to understand what it is telling you, which was the point I was making.
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Chalky

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Garri



Joined: 11 Jul 2005
Posts: 1717

PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2005 7:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
The editor is free, but it takes trial and error to understand what it is telling you, which was the point I was making.


You make lovely points chalky Wink
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Alan Knighting



Joined: 18 Oct 2004
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PostPosted: Mon Oct 03, 2005 7:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Chalky,

You are right. You can use a simple text editor such as Notepad to write your HTML code but what does Notepad know about HTML? Absolutely sod all!

Alan
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vrooje



Joined: 09 Dec 2004
Posts: 3263
Location: Burgundy, France

PostPosted: Tue Oct 04, 2005 3:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have always used EditPad (a simple text editor with a few more options than Notepad) to write my code. Now that I have access to Dreamweaver, I have been using that, but in code-editing mode, so in essence I am only using the integration with FTP and the function library for PHP. Otherwise I am still essentially using a text editor. I highly recommend them for ensuring that your code is exactly as you want it.

I have found (in my limited experience) that IE had more problems with my CSS than Firefox. I shrugged it off and figured it was much like their support of HTML -- they support all kinds of IE-only bells and whistles in an attempt to corner the market by making certain sites only viewable with IE. I try hard not to code using any of that.
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Brooke
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