Search Engine optimisation ..............

[oskar]

you have a lot to learn about web design

Correct! Absolutely everything, as I know nothing about the subject whatsoever. That´s why you won´t find one of my 93 posts on this forum mentioning it, and also why the homepage of my website says it´s being redesigned - not by me I may add.

[Garri]

Oskar, judging from your efforts as evidenced by your website, and knowing what I know about SEO in relation to a current travel project I'm working on, I would say your earlier remark was wide of the mark.

From memory, most of my posts on the subject have challenged various people's assertions about Google and how it ranks pages.

Bottom line on SEO though, from my point of view, is stick to the basic guidelines but above all, be natural and honest with your content. It's not rocket science. No-one actually needs to hire an SEO expert.

[wilko]

Paolo
Thanks for that, any thoughts on the links question?
Wilko

[craigkillick]

Don't want to join a slanging match (we're all in this together aren't we) but I have read Garri's posts before and agree with a lot of what he says. I come on this bulletin board to learn, and also to impart what knowledge I have.

SEO is a specialist field and one where the rules change on a very regular basis. Also, one where companies pay hundreds of pounds a month for specialist companies to 'tinker' with their site. For instance, reciprical links is (in a professional capacity) not a very good tactic. (a single incoming link has more value to Google than a two-way link).

I also 100% agree with previous posts about content - if you make it honest (and specific) your web site will have more value.

People need to realise that moving their web site up the search engines isn't easy, there are no short cuts and in the words of the Highlander, "there can be only one!" Also, you may get to number one but if your content is rubbish and your site is rubbish, you'll end up loosing them there.

That's why, if you become more specific about what you have, you narrow your market, but you become a bigger player.

Some of the Google tactics, are very simple but so often overlooked, name of domain, name of files, title of page, etc. These very simple building blocks are the basis for good SEO.

I hope you guys find answers to the queries you have. There are some very knowledgable people on these boards (I have learnt a lot and I do it for a living). I do have a holiday property but it is off-plan, not built yet. I will have a website shortly (so you can shoot me down ) because I know it will take six months to be acknowledged properly. I will also work my but off to get great, specific content, specific to my target market of customers.

If anyone is interested in my humble opinion, I gave a seminar this week on a similar subject about building web sites.
You are more than welcome to download the presentation (although it may not make perfect sense out of context).

www.the-escape.co.uk/betterweb/EscapeUsability.pdf (1.5mb)

(the offer of free stats at the end of the presentation was open to the delegates - sorry).

The presentation also shows a little usability testing at the end on one of the delegates web sites. All may seem a bit vague on PDF but there is some useful stuff in there.

I share, because I care

[Garri]

Cheers for the support Craig.

I just scanned through your pdf and on page 5 I would've added 'Conversation' to the party. Great read though. The redesign of the Ark site reminds me of the work the 37 Signals guys did in their early days before they became web app developers.

I'm currently involved in beta testing a new web 2.0 style shopping cart/ecommerce solution that promises to turn the whole shopping cart process on its head. Badly needed in my opinion! Imagine a mash-up of blogging and e-commerce.

Anyway, I would be very honoured to receive your feedback on my latest travel project, the coding up of which starts this weekend. I have designed some screens, which has been a long and iterative process but I'm happy with overall results and we're ready to roll. It's by no means perfect but because of the way it's designed & structured I can test, evaluate and redesign elements without affecting the content as I'm using Textpattern as the cms.

I'll contact you through your blog if that's OK once the project is soft launched.

[Garri]

Craig, looking in more detail at the conference website in your pdf, they seem to have taken the 'pin the tail on the donkey' approach to web design An all too common method that thankfully is dying out with the ark.

[craigkillick]

Thanks Garri,

I agree. One of the constant barriers I find is that people sometimes get too emotionally involved, and everybody has an opinion. However, sometimes (our) clients can't see the wood for the trees, even to the point of not listening to the real world feedback (including stats and usability testing) that give us a lot of the answers we need.

I agree with your comments about conversation as well. Very much into Blogging, and also (which may be a good idea for other people on this web site - Lenses. A new one by Seth Godin http://www.squidoo.com

I have found this a very good way of driving traffic - SEO is not the only answer.

Feel free to contact me - your idea sounds very interesting.

[craigkillick]

You all may be interested in this little tool shown to me the other day. Very good for analysing how good your web site is.

http://www.sitening.com/tools/seo-analyzer/

Also, some great advice on this web site:

http://www.webdesignfromscratch.com/

[oskar]

Hi Garri

I apologise for my remark. I think it was taken the wrong way. What I meant was that no-one really seems to know what is the right way to optimise a website. On different forums, you´ll get different advice, so we all have a lot to learn rather than think we know the right way. If we did, we´d all be number 1!

However, web design is different and you seem very knowledgeable on that subject. As I said, I know nothing about that and am getting my site redesigned, so would welcome your advice and expertise. Could you possibly PM me with your comments and opinions? It would be very much appreciated.

[Alan Knighting]

Dear All,

craigkillick says - "Don't want to join a slanging match (we're all in this together aren't we) but I have read Garri's posts before and agree with a lot of what he says. I come on this bulletin board to learn, and also to impart what knowledge I have."

and

"One of the constant barriers I find is that people sometimes get too emotionally involved, and everybody has an opinion. However, sometimes (our) clients can't see the wood for the trees, even to the point of not listening to the real world feedback (including stats and usability testing) that give us a lot of the answers we need."

We all have our opinions but that doesn't mean we are right. We all get too emotionally involved from time to time.

Garri is inclined to call a spade a spade but I think a lot of what he says makes sense. He should not be dismissed as "not one of us". He gives an outsider's view of things and I think we can all learn from that. He stands as a potential holiday maker and that makes him a person we should all listen to, very carefully.

Also, I think craigkillick's slides should be used as essential reminders when we are considering who we are; what we are doing; why and how we are doing it.

Alan

[Garri]

However, sometimes (our) clients can't see the wood for the trees, even to the point of not listening to the real world feedback

Probably too short-sighted to see that any investment in the area of usability could greatly impact their success.

I have found this a very good way of driving traffic - SEO is not the only answer.

True. RSS is another good way to drive traffic - a very lethal marketing weapon when in the right hands.

Feel free to contact me - your idea sounds very interesting.

Will do, cheers.

[Garri]

Hi Garri

I apologise for my remark. I think it was taken the wrong way.

No problem, cheers.

What I meant was that no-one really seems to know what is the right way to optimise a website.

The right way is surely the natural and honest way. Respect your content and audience/clients. Has always worked for me.

On different forums, you´ll get different advice, so we all have a lot to learn rather than think we know the right way. If we did, we´d all be number 1!

Yes, I've been to a few forums and read reams of 'expert' info on this subject and you know what? I've decided to ignore it all and just do what comes naturally. In my case the content is king (old cliche, I know, but true). Respect it, respect your audience, give them tools to help them, make it easy on their eyes, don't b.s. them and the rest will follow.

As the great Brian Eno once said, and I paraphrase, too many people are all aiming for the same target, they're all clamouring for attention and very few of them hit the target. What I prefer to do is shoot my arrow and then draw the target afterwards! Something like that.

I'm trying to apply that same principle with my new project. When everyone is doing the same thing, that should be your cue to not follow them!

As Apple says: think different (ly)

am getting my site redesigned, so would welcome your advice and expertise. Could you possibly PM me with your comments and opinions? It would be very much appreciated.

Sure, but I can't comment on your new design as I haven't seen it, so just give me a tinkle when the new design is about to launch and I'll gladly cast my critical eye over it.

[craigkillick]

Garri:

In my case the content is king (old cliche, I know, but true). Respect it, respect your audience, give them tools to help them, make it easy on their eyes, don't b.s. them and the rest will follow.

With you all the way on those points - play an honest game and you can't go wrong. No-one likes getting Spam - web/email or blog. Don't play the same game. Be authentic and you will get the right type of customers!

[paolo]

Very much into Blogging, and also (which may be a good idea for other people on this web site - Lenses.

Lenses? I started a new thread on this here:
viewforum.php?f=2

[marcus]

This thread has drifted a bit since it started, but just for the record the site I referred to on page 1 (not my property site) has now been unbanned by google following a 'reinclusion request' - 6 weeks to get back in. Compared with about 2 days for BMW and their own shady practices, but I had expected it to take even longer.

It was 'banned' due to some shady practice by a previous owner of the domain name, I think.

If you ever find yourself in a similar position let me know and I'll tell you the procedure to go through.

Re links also dicsussed in this thread, I have found that careful link exchange with a small number of other sites is very beneficial. Indeed google say themselves that the way they judge a site's importance is by the number of other relevant sites linking to it. In an ideal world we would all have sites so fascinating that everyone wanted to link to us regardless, but in the real world (well, my real world) that doesn't happen so much, and link exchange is perhaps the next best thing.
But not with every site in the world, just ones that are actually relevant and interesting to your visitors.

Cheers