when do you compensate?

From the moment they step through the door your bookings become guests, and their experiences determine whether they ever come back.
masseria mosca
Posts: 3
Joined: Wed Aug 23, 2006 2:15 pm
Location: Puglia, Italy

when do you compensate?

Post by masseria mosca »

Are there any guidelines over when it's justifiable to offer or give compensation to clients for things that go wrong during their stay? Or do you just have to go on instincts and argue it out with the client?

I rented out 4 holiday properties in Italy within a former olive oil estate that belong to my in-laws (it's a typical Italian family thing!) for the first time this year. 2 clients had problems with a groaning boiler that kept them awake at night. 2 different plumbers have investigated but can't find a solution: it's not the boiler itself but the water pressure within the larger building. So the only temporary solution was for the clients to switch off their water supply at nightime and stop the noise. Not ideal for an upmarket holiday rental I know, but does it merit compensation?

I have no control over resolving this problem as it's my husband's mother who runs operations out there. But it looks like it's going to be an on-going problem. Do I warn people ahead, offer a discount in advance? or what? Or should people just have to put up with the fact that things can go wrong in a historic building?

any thoughts most welcome.
thanks
Vally
Posts: 152
Joined: Sat Jul 08, 2006 4:24 pm
Location: Aberdeenshire

Post by Vally »

I think if something goes majorly wrong even if its out of your control and you cannot relocate the guest perhaps compensation is due...can't think of anything off hand but probably some disaster that the insurance would have to cough up for.
You cannot compensate for someone not enjoying their hols. there may be all sorts of underlying reasons that they are unhappy probably nothing to do with the holiday.
I think keep your advertising as near the truth as is possible , market to the folk that like that sort of holiday , answer questions honestly when they arise pre -booking and unless the roof blows away I see no reason for compensation
la vache!
Posts: 11065
Joined: Wed Feb 16, 2005 7:22 pm

Post by la vache! »

Have you anything in your contract for this like this clause?
11. The Owner shall not be liable to the Client:
For any temporary defect or stoppage in the supply of public services to the Property, nor in respect of any equipment, plant, machinery or appliance in the property, garden or swimming pool.
For any loss, damage or injury which is the result of adverse weather conditions, riot, war, strikes or other matters beyond control of the Owner.
For any loss, damage or inconvenience caused to or suffered by the Client if the property shall be destroyed or substantially damaged before the start of the rental period and in any such event the Owner shall, within seven days of notification to the Client, refund to the Client all sums previously paid in respect of the rental period.

As long as you are making every effort to get the problem resolved and there are not too many difficulties for the guests, then you shouldn't be liable.
User avatar
Giddy Goat
Posts: 9054
Joined: Sun Jun 12, 2005 7:38 am
Location: UK
Contact:

Post by Giddy Goat »

If, by having to turn off the boiler overnight there is no hot water for showers etc in the morning, that's a fairly big issue on an up-market hol I think. However, some boilers, once switched on, heat up the water pretty quickly, whilst some tanks are so well-lagged or insulated that the water is still hot by morning. If they get hot water without problem,I don't think they need to be compensated.

So if you are able to quantify the level of inconvenience more precisely, that would help you decide, Masseria Mosca.

Susan, we posted at the same time! I think I disagree in this case, as the problem is not exactly going to be temporary by all accounts, and the guests may be stuck with the situation for the whole of their hol. :(
Nostalgia isn't what it used to be
User avatar
Mouse
Posts: 7277
Joined: Tue Jun 20, 2006 6:47 pm
Location: Balearics
Contact:

Post by Mouse »

I think people work hard for their holidays and having a good nights sleep is imperitive to a relaxing holiday. Unless they choose to holiday in the middle of a noisy complex/resort I think they have the right to expect that

If I had a boiler that did cause noise in the night then I would be doing my damndest to solve the problem. If, as you say, its not fixable then I would not expect to have to put up with it and I don't think it would be fair to expect your guests to without you making them aware of the problem in advance and leaving the decision upto them.
You could make it more attractive by lowering the price and pointing out what you have done and why - this way the guests can have no reason to expect any recompense. If the problem is solved by having the water supply switched off at night then I don't think you have to offer much off the price - just a token for the inconvenience of having to remember to do it. And yes - you could explain it away as a quirk of the building! That would be a positive way to talk about it! However I feel you do need to be up front with future guests.

Welcome to the forum by the way!

Mouse
x
One martini, two martini, three martini floor!
la vache!
Posts: 11065
Joined: Wed Feb 16, 2005 7:22 pm

Post by la vache! »

If there were no hot water that would be different - I wouldn't let the property at all and would give a full refund!
(I also didn't read the bit about an upmarket holiday, that would make a difference too!)
User avatar
debk
Posts: 1053
Joined: Sat Sep 25, 2004 12:01 pm
Location: Lisbon, Portugal
Contact:

Post by debk »

Since the plumbers say this is an "on-going problem" hopefully the focus is on getting this fixed ASAP rather than worrying about how to compensate over the longrun. So, during this repair time, I think I would tell next month's guest about the problem -- clearly explaining the situation (turn water off each evening; wait X minutes/hours before hot water in the morning; etc) -- and ask them if they would prefer to rebook elsewhere and/or retain their reservation for a X% discount (10%?).

Replumbing, new boilers, installing pressure valves, or whatever the final solution can all seem overwhelming, but upmarket rentals do have upmarket maintenance requirements. And, though I couldn't see a link to your rentals and don't know your rates, if a good night's sleep and hot water are both unreliable amenities for upcoming guests then it shouldn't take too many full refunds to make ANY and ALL repairs a bargain. :shock:

Unfortunately, things like this happen; I received a last-minute inquiry today from someone who says their originally chosen rental has suffered water damage and they now have to find new accommodations.

Ah, the joys of historic buildings... :wink:
debk
masseria mosca
Posts: 3
Joined: Wed Aug 23, 2006 2:15 pm
Location: Puglia, Italy

Post by masseria mosca »

thanks for these thoughts, and by the way, I forgot to say, my name is Catherine! The property is Masseria Mosca.

The hot water isn't affected. It's the inconvenience of having to switch it on and off and the fact that they then can't flush the loo in the night.

Offering some discount/compensation in advance is tricky because this problem seems to occur randomly in different apartments at different times. Some clients haven't had it at all. Some have mentioned it in passing but not been bothered by it. And two have had it very loudly. It possibly depends on the amount of water being used in the rest of the building; ie the occupancy levels. I've decided to warn our remaining two clients that it may happen but not mention compensation at this stage in case it encourages them to invent or exaggerate it when it might not even happen to them.

I do agree with you that disturbed sleep is a big problem for an upmarket rural holiday, that's why this is giving me such a headache! And I wish I could do sth about it.

By the way, what would people consider a suitable amount of discount/compensation if the problem does occur for the next clients? They've paid £1300 for two weeks.

many thanks again for all the replies,

Catherine
User avatar
debk
Posts: 1053
Joined: Sat Sep 25, 2004 12:01 pm
Location: Lisbon, Portugal
Contact:

Post by debk »

Hi, Catherine! Do you have a link to your properties? Would love to see them.

OK, given that this is an intermittent problem and some guests don't have any problem at all, I exercise my right to change my opinion! :) I would NOT tell people in advance.

Rather, I think I would post instructions at the property, something to the effect of "Occasionally the water pressure in our ancient pipes acts strangely, resulting in noises coming from the boiler. This is nothing to be alarmed about. However, if the noise is a disturbance, please disconnect the boiler (see instructions posted there) for a few hours and/or overnight, as you wish."

Obviously, I've no clue what to really write but maybe you can position this as part of your rural charm? Perhaps just keep it informative but lowkey, especially since it is quite likely not to happen?

No good ideas are coming to me, really. Just trying to be helpful. As others have said, Welcome to LHM!
debk
User avatar
Giddy Goat
Posts: 9054
Joined: Sun Jun 12, 2005 7:38 am
Location: UK
Contact:

Post by Giddy Goat »

I found 'em Deb - Googled! I was interested, as we've just had a week in Puglia ourselves. The apartments look super, Catherine.

Trust Deb to strike the right note with this problem. Listen to her Catherine, she always makes sense! If it's intermittent, she's absolutely right and there's no purpose to be served in talking it up unnecessarily. 8)
Nostalgia isn't what it used to be
User avatar
Normandy Cow
Posts: 2687
Joined: Sun Nov 28, 2004 7:14 am
Location: Normandy
Contact:

Post by Normandy Cow »

Welcome to the forum Catherine!!!

Just to confuse matters, my real name isn't Catherine, Catherine is my second name! :lol:

PS - I agree with Deb and Jane...
Last edited by Normandy Cow on Wed Jan 31, 2007 7:21 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
Mouse
Posts: 7277
Joined: Tue Jun 20, 2006 6:47 pm
Location: Balearics
Contact:

Post by Mouse »

Catherine

I had a thought just before I fell asleep last night (I must learn to switch off!?).......could you use a timer switch?
Plug the boiler into it - time it to go off at night and then to come back on at a convenient time in the morning?

Mouse
x
One martini, two martini, three martini floor!
masseria mosca
Posts: 3
Joined: Wed Aug 23, 2006 2:15 pm
Location: Puglia, Italy

Post by masseria mosca »

thanks again everyone. It's so reassuring to get your points of view and helps me to know where to stand if/when it happens again.

I don't think the timer switch would work as it's not the water heating as such that causes the noise but a build-up of pressure in the pipes. The irrigation system that comes on every morning requires high pressure, apparently, and so when that's not being used that pressure builds up in the system and makes whistling/groaning noises.

We don't have our own website but have an ad on www.ownersdirect.co.uk/italy/IT623.htm

thank you for such a warm welcome,
Catherine
User avatar
Mouse
Posts: 7277
Joined: Tue Jun 20, 2006 6:47 pm
Location: Balearics
Contact:

Post by Mouse »

what a lovely place!

Do you ever get chance to spend time there?

Mouse
x
One martini, two martini, three martini floor!
User avatar
debk
Posts: 1053
Joined: Sat Sep 25, 2004 12:01 pm
Location: Lisbon, Portugal
Contact:

Post by debk »

Catherine, love the bottle-shaped shelves. Lovely!
debk
Post Reply