Renting our biggest gite for a year: good idea?
Renting our biggest gite for a year: good idea?
Last evening, the English couple (late50s/early60s) staying in our biggest gite (4 bedroomed converted tobacco-drying barn with stunning views) ask us round for drinks and eventually cut to the chase. They wondered if we might be willing to rent the barn to them for a whole year and, if so, could we make them a price. They've 'fallen in love with the area', want to be able to come and go as they please and use the barn as a base to search for their own property.
One of our three gites, the 4-bedroomed barn was newly converted last year, has the best views down the valley, has already proved popular for renting by big parties of families/friends and - oddly - by couples (presumably well-heeled) who seem to like the space it offers. It complements our three and two-bedroomed gites set in 20 acres.
What should we consider as we ponder this offer? What are the pros and cons? Anybody doing something similiar - has it worked out?
Many thanks for any advice.
Jim
One of our three gites, the 4-bedroomed barn was newly converted last year, has the best views down the valley, has already proved popular for renting by big parties of families/friends and - oddly - by couples (presumably well-heeled) who seem to like the space it offers. It complements our three and two-bedroomed gites set in 20 acres.
What should we consider as we ponder this offer? What are the pros and cons? Anybody doing something similiar - has it worked out?
Many thanks for any advice.
Jim
People who move in for more than a few weeks tend to have "ownership" issues, meaning it's only natural that they want to "make it their own". This means anything from moving furniture around, to hanging their own pictures, to buying furniture to replace yours. Maybe they want their own bed, bookcase/TV/stereo/writing desk/BBQ/whatever, they may even paint a wall and plant a garden. Over a year, if they are planning to move there fulltime, I would expect them to start accumulating things, possibly even bringing things over with them each visit. It might end up fulltime with the entire contents of their house in your barn and nowhere to go when it's time to move out. They may not leave. Not sure, but I think tenants have rights in France.
Other things to consider: If they're going to get to know the area and the people there, they're going to start inviting friends over. Is it a self contained property, well away from the other gites?
All of the above is deeply unfair to them of course, only looking at worst case scenario, none of which may apply, but you say you already have a good number of clients for this property, so I can't help wondering why you need to do this. I mean, why would you want to lose the business you have already built up? Are they offering to pay you seriously more money than you would otherwise make, or what's in it for you?
Other things to consider: If they're going to get to know the area and the people there, they're going to start inviting friends over. Is it a self contained property, well away from the other gites?
All of the above is deeply unfair to them of course, only looking at worst case scenario, none of which may apply, but you say you already have a good number of clients for this property, so I can't help wondering why you need to do this. I mean, why would you want to lose the business you have already built up? Are they offering to pay you seriously more money than you would otherwise make, or what's in it for you?
Last edited by A-two on Mon Nov 06, 2006 8:39 am, edited 1 time in total.
Hi Jim
It depends on the rental your likely to get next year...Look at last years income from it...and see what you would be likely to achieve ...also what the existing people would be willing to pay.
Of course you should have less hassle but then more utilities if theyre there a full year
.....If its the area theyve really fallen for couldnt you try to nudge them into one of the other Gites that arent so sellable....rentwise..
Seems a shame to lose the one with the best views of the valley and potentially the best money earner...
You should feel pleased with yourselves that they love it so much they want to stay all year ..well done..
Have you no bookings yet for next year for the barn it sounds lovely...or repeaters..[is there anywhere we could see it website etc...being nosey]
Or would that mean you would have to cancel someone..?
If they are going to stay the year are you in close proximity and would or could you find that a bit irritating...[what if you fell out?]
Just thoughts of course and the income and knowing you had a full years rent to help compensate....
Good Luck!! in what you decide...
It depends on the rental your likely to get next year...Look at last years income from it...and see what you would be likely to achieve ...also what the existing people would be willing to pay.
Of course you should have less hassle but then more utilities if theyre there a full year
.....If its the area theyve really fallen for couldnt you try to nudge them into one of the other Gites that arent so sellable....rentwise..
Seems a shame to lose the one with the best views of the valley and potentially the best money earner...
You should feel pleased with yourselves that they love it so much they want to stay all year ..well done..
Have you no bookings yet for next year for the barn it sounds lovely...or repeaters..[is there anywhere we could see it website etc...being nosey]
Or would that mean you would have to cancel someone..?
If they are going to stay the year are you in close proximity and would or could you find that a bit irritating...[what if you fell out?]
Just thoughts of course and the income and knowing you had a full years rent to help compensate....
Good Luck!! in what you decide...
- Alan Knighting
- Posts: 4120
- Joined: Mon Oct 18, 2004 7:26 am
- Location: Monflanquin, Lot-et-Garonne, France
Jim,
I have a long term let in my larger cottage.
What has already been said is all true and good advice so I will not repeat it.
If you can rely on getting more than say 10 weeks booked with holiday makers in High Season then you will be better off staying with the holiday trade.
If you opt for the longer term don't forget that it is normal for the tenants to pay for all services and outgoings, repairs and renewals. Is the property separately metered for these? Also, make sure the insurance arrangements are satisfactory.
In France anyone with the benefit of a letting for a year or more has automatic renewal rights so you could have a problem at the end of the term. To be on the safe side you should go to a lawyer or an estate agent for the necessary documentation. I'm a lawyer myself so I didn't need to but I did use a standard form letting agreement.
Fluffy
I have a long term let in my larger cottage.
What has already been said is all true and good advice so I will not repeat it.
If you can rely on getting more than say 10 weeks booked with holiday makers in High Season then you will be better off staying with the holiday trade.
If you opt for the longer term don't forget that it is normal for the tenants to pay for all services and outgoings, repairs and renewals. Is the property separately metered for these? Also, make sure the insurance arrangements are satisfactory.
In France anyone with the benefit of a letting for a year or more has automatic renewal rights so you could have a problem at the end of the term. To be on the safe side you should go to a lawyer or an estate agent for the necessary documentation. I'm a lawyer myself so I didn't need to but I did use a standard form letting agreement.
Fluffy
Congrats! What a compliment to you and your property.
I'd be worried mostly about the rights of a tenant under French law. (I've read here that things are different for long term lets.)
Beyond that, we did a 7 week let to a delightful family and can confirm what others have said about the same subject:
1. Utilities are MUCH higher for long term versus short term. (Short stayers are out and about sightseeing; long termers sit around and crank up the heat/AC.) They should be responsible for paying all utilities.
2. Wear and tear is much higher (see above). After a year's let, your pillows/towels/sheets/books/kitchen utensils/appliances/etc will have seen MUCH more wear than you would see in a normal year. Price accordingly. And they should pay for repairs, too.
3. Joanna is right about entertaining. Our family met people and started wanting to have parties, which is not allowed in our rental agreement. The first party had already been well planned by the time we heard about it, but they agreed to no more. (The extra people onsite, completely unknown to us, and noise factor for neighbors were too much of a possible liablility for our comfort.)
4. Consider keeping a quick weekly cleaning in the plan and price accordingly. That allows you regular access to ensure things are being maintained the way you wish and so that you can catch things before they become a problem.
You might also consider the fact that you would be losing out on a full year's word-of-mouth marketing from the many guests who won't be able to stay there. Also, you'll probably need a week or two after they leave for an in-depth sprucing and minor re-decorating (e.g., paint touchups) before it is perfect again for holiday renters.
Jim, you know this place will rent, and rent well. If I were you, I'd first try to move them to one of your other places. If they aren't interested, well, don't over-discount!
debk
I'd be worried mostly about the rights of a tenant under French law. (I've read here that things are different for long term lets.)
Beyond that, we did a 7 week let to a delightful family and can confirm what others have said about the same subject:
1. Utilities are MUCH higher for long term versus short term. (Short stayers are out and about sightseeing; long termers sit around and crank up the heat/AC.) They should be responsible for paying all utilities.
2. Wear and tear is much higher (see above). After a year's let, your pillows/towels/sheets/books/kitchen utensils/appliances/etc will have seen MUCH more wear than you would see in a normal year. Price accordingly. And they should pay for repairs, too.
3. Joanna is right about entertaining. Our family met people and started wanting to have parties, which is not allowed in our rental agreement. The first party had already been well planned by the time we heard about it, but they agreed to no more. (The extra people onsite, completely unknown to us, and noise factor for neighbors were too much of a possible liablility for our comfort.)
4. Consider keeping a quick weekly cleaning in the plan and price accordingly. That allows you regular access to ensure things are being maintained the way you wish and so that you can catch things before they become a problem.
You might also consider the fact that you would be losing out on a full year's word-of-mouth marketing from the many guests who won't be able to stay there. Also, you'll probably need a week or two after they leave for an in-depth sprucing and minor re-decorating (e.g., paint touchups) before it is perfect again for holiday renters.
Jim, you know this place will rent, and rent well. If I were you, I'd first try to move them to one of your other places. If they aren't interested, well, don't over-discount!
debk
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I was asked to let out my ski apartment for the whole winter. They were mature guys who wanted to spend most weekends there, and bring family for school holidays. I set the price for the season at the same amount as I received as rent last year, and excluded the heating costs. They decided it was too expensive, and I was actually quite relieved. It wouldn't have felt like mine anymore. I have already taken bookings for this winter that are almost at last years income levels, and as some are repeat guests, then I would have felt bad about the season long let.
Bear in mind that long term renters normally pay monthly, and if they decide not to pay, or to leave the property it will be difficult to get you money back. I'm thinking particularly of the scenario where they decide to leave at the beginning of July and you have no bookings for the summer.
I believe that the French law differenciates between a holiday let and a long term let after 90 days, I may be wrong though so don't quote me on it;
I believe that the French law differenciates between a holiday let and a long term let after 90 days, I may be wrong though so don't quote me on it;
- Alan Knighting
- Posts: 4120
- Joined: Mon Oct 18, 2004 7:26 am
- Location: Monflanquin, Lot-et-Garonne, France
French law is no more and no less complex than UK law when it comes to tenancies and the rights and liabilities create by tenancies should be considered “in the round�. Adopting tiny details of the tenancy laws and applying them across the board is not the right approach. The laws need to be viewed as a whole, otherwise they are meaningless.I believe that the French law differentiates between a holiday let and a long term let after 90 days
It seems to me there are some here who are clearly against the idea of long term lettings as opposed to holiday lettings. They highlight the potential problems of a tenant not leaving when he has agreed to do so. They highlight the potential problems of a tenant leaving earlier than he has agreed to do so. They are quite right in doing so. In the unlikely event of those things happening the answer is – you go to court and enforce the agreement.
The other side of the coin is - what do you do if your holiday maker completely trashes your property; what do you do if your holiday maker refuses to move out at the end of his week or fortnight? In the unlikely event of that happening the answer is – you go to court and enforce your agreement.
In practical terms there’s no real difference. You are stuck with the legal process, no matter what your opinion of that might be.
I don’t think there is a right way or a wrong way. I think you consider your aspirations such as, what rental income do you expect? I think you evaluate the reliability of your potential tenants. I think you consider the laws applying to what you want to do and the enforceability of those laws. After that, you make your decision.
Fluffy
Wise words...Alan Knighting wrote:I don’t think there is a right way or a wrong way. I think you consider your aspirations such as, what rental income do you expect? I think you evaluate the reliability of your potential tenants. I think you consider the laws applying to what you want to do and the enforceability of those laws. After that, you make your decision.
Fluffy