Shared hosting - no good? VPS?

[greenbarn]

A question for the web wizards perhaps.
Background: I'm hosting my website on WebHosting UK (WHUK) using shared hosting. I assumed this would be everything I needed, and of course it's the cheapest option.
In about 6 months I've had two occasions of emails sent from my domain getting blocked; the first time the blocking was by Spamhaus so fairly serious, now I'm getting bounces with blocking by hotmail - not the usual hotmail trick of just chucking an email away, but returned with delivery failure information. At least this only affects emails to hotmail addresses.
In both situations the problem has been the IP address of the server at WHUK where my domain is hosted getting onto a blacklist, and removal from the blacklist takes several days from when it's reported.

So my question from outside my comfort zone - AIUI the next step up the ladder is Virtual Private Server (VPS) hosting, at some significant extra cost. Would this mean that email sent from my domain would then have an IP address unique to me rather than being the IP address of the shared server, and would this therefore overcome the issue of being blacklisted because of rogue traffic on the shared server?
Is this the only solution, if indeed it is one, apart from the prohibitive cost of a dedicated server?
Hope that lot makes sense!
Thanks for any advice.

[newtimber]

I know exactly what you mean.
I ended up on a server that had other users who kept getting the mail servers blacklisted.
I've changed server (still with the same company) and it all seems fine now.
Perhaps you could ask to move your account to another of their servers so you're with better company?

[greenbarn]

Perhaps you could ask to move your account to another of their servers so you're with better company?

It's a thought, but I wonder if it's pot luck? I can see the problem getting worse, and I don't know if the host services can do anything pre-emptive? By the time they recognise that one of their users has sent vast amounts of spam emails and banned them I imagine the damage is done.

[DaveT]

It depends how you are sending your emails. In most cases emails are usually sent through dedicated mail relay servers provided by the hosting service. Even if you switched to VPS you would probably be using the same relay servers.

Some hosting services might let you run your own relay server on your VPS. It's not something I would necessarily recommend, even if it was allowed.

[greenbarn]

It depends how you are sending your emails. In most cases emails are usually sent through dedicated mail relay servers provided by the hosting service. Even if you switched to VPS you would probably be using the same relay servers.

Thanks! That's one question I'd need to ask!

Might a hosting service have an email relay service for VPS customers separate from its shared hosting customers? I wonder if the spammers are more likely to opt for the cheapest possible service, ie shared hosting.... Still a gamble but possibly less of one?

[e-richard]

Try doing a search on phrases like "failure to send email hotmail"

Its horrifying how many other people are suffering.
Its terrifying to realise how fragile the sending of emails is
Its really scary to read the myriad of different solutions proposed
Its depressing to note the preponderance of unintelligible jargon in the answers to the question

I'm off to the post office to buy some more stamps.

[greenbarn]

Try doing a search on phrases like "failure to send email hotmail"

Agree - hotmail is a major issue, but this is more than hotmail being a PITA (as if that wasn't enough) this is an issue directly with the WHUK server. I've had endless mails to hotmail addresses dumped without notification, but this was a vanilla text one liner with no sigs or anything and was bounced back with a message

SMTP error from remote mail server after MAIL FROM:<zzzzzzzzzzzzz> SIZE=13585:
550 SC-001 (BAY004-MC5F13) Unfortunately, messages from 109.203.1xx.yy weren't sent. Please contact your Internet service provider since part of their network is on our block list.

Yes this is still down to hotmail, but I've had it before with Spamhaus blacklisting the server and that's a much bigger issue.
WHUK have now suggested moving to a VPS (more expense!) so I've asked the question that DaveT raised and waiting on response. I've found their support to be good in the past.

[DaveT]

Might a hosting service have an email relay service for VPS customers separate from its shared hosting customers?

It might.

WHUK have now suggested moving to a VPS

This suggests that their VPS configuration does use a different relay, perhaps they will set up a dedicated relay on your own server for you.

There may be cheaper solutions. It depends what you are actually doing. Are you talking about day-to-day emails to clients? Or is this for bulk mail such as a newsletter or promotions?

[greenbarn]

This was the reply when I asked the point you raised about the relay:

Regarding the mails, as it will be your own server and we will enable your PHP mailenable and through this we can set your emails and can be sent easily. There wil be no relay server used for your emails.

Which seems promising, if I'm translating it correctly!

It's for everyday emails, not bulk stuff. Suddenly finding I can't send an email with booking information to a guest is something I don't want to repeat! I expect the normal issues with hotmail, and there's little can be done about that other than sending emails with no attachments or links and doubling up with another email from a totally different path, and possibly a text message, a letter in the post etc etc - or educate people not to use hotmail/live/outlook/msn of course!
They're also suggesting, in response to another question, that the painfully slow response time when I'm trying to make edits on my website should also improve.
I'm probably going go with the VPS solution - just keeping my powder dry a little while longer in case I get any more feedback!
Thanks for the help.

[DaveT]

Which seems promising, if I'm translating it correctly!

Yes, sounds like they allow you to send directly from your VPS, which would solve your problem.

One alternative might be to use Google Apps or Office 365 for your email and keep your shared hosting. Cost is about £3 to £4 per month I think. But then you wouldn't have the added advantage of speeding up your website.

[greenbarn]

Which seems promising, if I'm translating it correctly!

Yes, sounds like they allow you to send directly from your VPS, which would solve your problem.

One alternative might be to use Google Apps or Office 365 for your email and keep your shared hosting. Cost is about £3 to £4 per month I think. But then you wouldn't have the added advantage of speeding up your website.

Thanks for the tips. I'll give the VPS a try and see what difference it makes. WHUK support are making all the right noises about moving me with no disruption (unless you count middle of the night as disruption!) and I've found their support to be very responsive and helpful to date. It has to be the simplest solution.

[e-richard]

Good luck with the move, although, I doubt you'll need luck:

.... WHUK support are making all the right noises about moving me with no disruption ...I've found their support to be very responsive and helpful to date.

I can 100% concur with that statement.
They have helped me move from shared hosting to VPS, upgrade mySql with hundreds of databases, and countless other email issues always with a smile that is evident in their communication

Did you know that their support is based in India ?
I think some of the support key bosses are in the UK, but it's all totally transparent and seamless.

[greenbarn]

Did you know that their support is based in India ?
I think some of the support key bosses are in the UK, but it's all totally transparent and seamless.

The people I've been conversing with via email recently certainly didn't have English as their first language, despite rather British/American sounding names, so I'm not altogether surprised - it also helps to explain the availability of a response at odd hours. Their technical and hand-holding ability has been first class. There is, of course, an enormous amount of technical expertise in India.