HA Bashing?

OTA = Online Travel Agency, which means those sites that sell the booking and take the payment for you.
AndrewH
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Post by AndrewH »

Three years ago on LMH, 2013/14, Holiday Lettings was the subject of heavy "bashing" (I call it criticism) because they had stopped guest comments as passed on through owners and had insisted that in future only guest reviews as received by HL could be shown on a listing. What's more they had introduced something called an owner's "Response Rate" - how dare they?!

In the same period Owners Direct, as an extension of HomeAway, could do no wrong! The prospect that guests could actually get charged by OD for making a booking would have been dismissed as fanciful and ridiculous by most posters (not all) on LMH.

Apart from "the old order" changing dramatically, my point is that without the rolling criticisms directed at listing sites, and sometimes the praise, I and perhaps others would not be able to formulate a balanced and confident strategy for marketing my self-catering property for the future.

For the most part as I see it, people on here don't do "bashing" for bashing's sake. They do it so that they and others can more easily see the road ahead.

PS. On thinking further about this, I do find that the drama scripts - What customers services said, then what I said, then what customer services said, etc. - while they do add colour are too long and drawn out.
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CSE
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Post by CSE »

The world has and still is changing. We have to adapt to this, be it in our business or private lives. A lot of these changes are said to be for "our" good. Spin and/or lies flow constantly. The bigger the corporation, the more important the politician the lies/spin becomes more and more easy for them to issue.
We (us in Spain) personally try and live our lives the way we would like too. However, we have noticed personally, and via views expressed on LMH, that is becoming extremely harder and harder. Over the years have seen an increase in the arguments against the corporate portal increase, the worries your guest give have also increased. We are all under pressure to perform to an unrealistic standard for the vacation rental/B&B sector.

How is this to be solved? Leaving the business or adapting to those things you cannot change.
Never try to out-stubborn your guests.
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kevsboredagain
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Post by kevsboredagain »

casasantoestevo wrote:
Felt the same when you kept on about Brexit. Thankfully you saw the light..
I saw no light but came to realise there was no light on.
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Post by CSE »

was there even a tunnel, for the light at the end to be "on"?
Never try to out-stubborn your guests.
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greenbarn
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Post by greenbarn »

greenbarn wrote: It is, after all, for the benefit of the industry they visualise (and not their investors), so let's all stop nitpicking and instead be enormously grateful for the opportunity they have bestowed upon us, and let us all kneel down and kiss ass.
kevsboredagain wrote: Even accuse me of kissing ass – how incredibly immature and narrow minded.
I'd better put that one straight. I wasn't thinking of you when I wrote that, rather the unshakeable belief of the listing sites that they are doing what is best for all of us and their expectation of how we should all accept it and be thankful to them. Such is the level of their arrogance.
Sometimes I have difficulty finding a way to word something so that it can't be misinterpreted - when you know the meaning of the message you're giving, it's easy to miss the fact that it's how the message is received that matters; I've failed there.
So no, it wasn't my intention to accuse you, or any individual, of kissing ass but to illustrate the level of contempt the big listing sites have for those who still need their services. Which is pretty much what Alan Egan's piece does; maybe they'll actually listen to him.
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Casscat
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Post by Casscat »

I'm pleased to be leaving holiday rentals behind. Because I want to keep the back door open in case my circumstances change I updated my OD prices to reflect what I would be asking in 2017 and left the calendar open just to see what kind of interest would be generated based on the twin impact of a poor £/€ exchange rate and the effect of the new OD fees. Virtually every guest who stayed at the finca this year wants to come back next year, but from OD I have had the princely total of ONE new enquiry for 2017. This time last year my entire summer for the following year was booked. Notwithstanding the moderate impact of currency (which does not affect the rental itself as my OD prices are in sterling) I can only conclude that OD has successfully f**ked up what would have been my income for next year. If that makes me a moaning, whingebucket Luddite then I'm really not bothered. I'd be a lot more bothered about trying to extricate myself entirely from the likes of OD, HA, HL, Airbnb etc. because they seem to have collectively conspired to throttle the life out of the direct from owner model.
Giraffe
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Post by Giraffe »

I'm also a newbie to LMH. Last year I started my own marketing of my holiday let. On advice of other local rental owners I thought that just using the listing sites, TA and OD, would be enough. How wrong! I had no idea what was going on until I found LMH.

Both the listing sites' criticisms and the forward looking views on LMH have been so useful. Please continue with both. They have enabled me to assess both the risks and the advantages, and I'm now developing a new marketing strategy.

I'm also undertaking a FREE online course, "Digital Marketing, Challenges and Insights". which starts in October over 4-6 weeks. You can participate online in your own time from anywhere in the world. It's run by Southampton University in conjunction with Future Learn. If anyone is interested, details can be found at www.futurelearn.com
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declanja
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Post by declanja »

I think most if not all of us here enjoy being independent. We have our rental properties and we like the concept of communicating with guests, trying to establish if we feel they will respect our properties before we commit and all going well that they will have a good time and might return. Up to now most of the control was in our hands.

HA and others are changing the ground rules. We have less control on all of the above. We have to give away control with instant booking, etc etc and none of us like it. If we don't play by their rules we are punish by their best match system so they now have control and none of us like it. We preferred the old way.

I however have no choice but to accept their reality as for now. HA bring me most of my business. My Nice apartment is rented 85% of the year mostly through hard work on my behalf but through HA. Last year I paid a global subscription of almost £1000 or €1300. This year I pald than a third of that for similar exposure. Last year I got dozens of emails for dates not available, this year I don't think I got any. I have got 6 or 7 direct booking requests without any prior communication. I found this strange as I would not do this but it seems that many people do and I have to accept this. All these bookings turn out fine.
So my level of enquires has dropped but my conversion rate has improved. HA are taking control but by doing so are reducing my work load. Their customer service is poor, their business model is based to maximising profit through spreading fear of scams but the general public are prepared to pay. I offered my last booker the choice of paying me directly through Paypal and avoiding the service charge but they choose to pay through HA. What can we do?

I would dearly love to see a successful non commission site. I would love to be able to promote my website onto the first page of Google without spending too much money. I would love to be able to tell HA and TA and Airbnb (if it worked for me) where to go. I would also love to tell my bank manager that I am not going to keep paying my mortgage as an act of defiance against the big global giants such as Expedia but I doubt he cares either.

So, my view is that while it is good to moan and we have every right to complain about many aspects of the changes in our industry, the reality is that the battle may be lost. I for one will continue to moan but accept my powerless reality. So LMHers lets go easy on each other. This is a great forum and we all have a lot in common and yet we all see everything from different unique changing perspectives. This is my perspective today!
Nigel Goodwin
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Post by Nigel Goodwin »

Giraffe, any insights you gain from your course in digital marketing, particularly with reference to listing sites, would be of great interest to many of us here.
Giraffe
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Post by Giraffe »

Nigel, Yes I'll be more than happy to share any useful insights.

Forgot to say- it's a part time course, around 6 hours of your time a week. Can be done at your own convenience, even in the middle of the night!
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French Cricket
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Post by French Cricket »

declanja wrote: the reality is that the battle may be lost.
Yes, I think that's absolutely so.

But it only matters if we think that the battle is the war. And it isn't.

We, as individual owners who care enough, and are clued up enough, to be members of groups like LMH, are not powerless - that's just an illusion created by the megacorps because they want us to give them our power. We may be powerless in trying to fight and change their systems, yes, but there is always a choice; some may choose to work within the new status quo and make it work as well as possible for them, while others choose to walk away and create new ways of working. What's important is not which of those we choose, but to actively choose it - by which I mean make a conscious decision rather than feel pushed into a way of working by default. That's when we feel negative, that's when we feel the need to moan and vent. The trouble with continual moaning and venting is that it saps energy rather than giving it, and the energy it saps could be much better utilised in coming up with creative ways of working.

Walking away means challenging all the old assumptions that we have about the business we're in. Just one example: "it's good to get lots of enquiries". It isn't. It's good to get enough enquiries, and have a high conversion rate. So straight away, there's a point to work on: how to increase our conversion rates. It's quite possible to have a conversion rate of over 90% (I know - I have one!); that means fewer enquiries needed to fill dates, less energy and time wasted in replying to hundreds of people, and less frustration and disappointment when you never her from them again. And so the effect knocks on, and our business becomes once again a pleasure.

I'm increasingly getting the feeling on LMH that for very many people, the holiday rental business is a chore rather than a pleasure.
declanja
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Post by declanja »

I fully agree that one needs to enjoy this work rather than look at it as a chore. I too try not to focus on the negatives, at least not every day! I admire those that have a USP to promote their rental or those that will take reduced occupancy as the price of independance. In the Nice area HA have 9500 rental properties so it is very difficult to stand out other than by playing by their rules unfortunately.
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Post by Tivoli »

I take Kev's point that we must move with the times and deal with the now rather than wallow in the past. I think that very many of us have now just begun taking first steps into creating our own sites as a way to break free from the commission-based listing sites. As owners we have seen the changes going on because we are dealing with this stuff day in, day out. But for punters who just book one holiday a year, they might be scratching their heads thinking "I don't remember it being like this last year", but are they actually going to react the way we hope by looking at other places on the net that aren't the big listing sites? Only time will tell.
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kevsboredagain
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Post by kevsboredagain »

French Cricket wrote:The trouble with continual moaning and venting is that it saps energy rather than giving it, and the energy it saps could be much better utilised in coming up with creative ways of working.
Exactly what I'm trying, unsuccessfully to say. I read these threads looking for ideas and ways forward but always end up annoyed at so many pointless statements and the same old crew sticking the knife in. I know I'm not the only one tiring off the lack of productive discussion.
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French Cricket
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Post by French Cricket »

I know, Kev!
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