Gites...anyone actually earning a living?

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EricaT
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Joined: Tue Jul 12, 2016 2:03 pm

Re: Gites...anyone actually earning a living?

Post by EricaT »

vacancesthezan wrote:
EricaT wrote:Dear folks,

It's me and my never ending stream of questions again!

I've posted some things in another forum and there is a terrible sense of gloom and doom around gites and their potential to earn an income. I am being told flat out, don't do it! I appreciate the frankness and the advice that people have been giving me but I can't help but wonder if there is another side to the story too.

So, I'm going to be very cheeky and ask the following questions.

1- Do you run gites and earn/gros £15'000 + per annum?
It was our only income for many years
2 - Do you have a pool?
NOPE
3 - Are you within walking distance of a shop/bar/restaurant?
Yes
4 - How many gites do you have?
4 apartments which can also be split into B&B - flexibility being the key
5 - What percentage of your guests are British?
about 30 to 40 % but depends upon the year. We are fairly fluent but inaccurate French speakers.
6 - Have you been established 3 years +
More than 15 years. This has been a full time job for one person (8 to 10 hours a day, 6 days a week out of season and 7 days a week in season). 3 to 5 days holiday a year (with computer in tow just in case!)
7 - Do you have an another income besides the gites or are the gites your sole income? (i.e. rental property back in uk or partner working away).
Now we have a retirement pension but prior to this only the business.


Erica
In truth the most important is location location location.

If you are in the middle of nowhere what are people going to do? If you are offering crafting then what are the other people in the party who dont do crafting going to do?

The keys are (LMHers may have more to add):

being somewhere (or having something) that people want to see and do
extending the season with careful pricing
doing as much yourself as you can
keeping a ruthless control over costs.

Plus having sufficient funds behind you as a cushion.

Why have you chosen £15,000pa ? Do you think that this would be enough?

We dont have children but would not (and could not) have done this with them.

What you are proposing is a tall order but possible with the right property in the right area. There are lots of people out there failing. It doesnt mean that you will.

Good luck
I'm beginning to realise that not being within walking distance of a restaurant or shop isn't going to be ideal, but not a deal breaker for lots of people.
Thank-you for pointing out about the partners of the crafters, or the "non-crafters" as I'd call them :lol: I had considered pricing for them, and how to re-shuffle bedroom furniture but not what they would actually do...I was hoping they would be happy just relaxing in the gite, or they would have a car and would go and visit local towns.
Where we are planning on buying is very touristy with lots to do.
No, £15'000 wouldn't be enough but on top of my income from the children books it would be more than enough, especially as we would be mortgage free.
Why would you not have considered doing it with children? Is it simply because of the work load?
Lots of helpful stuff here, thank-you!!
EricaT
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Joined: Tue Jul 12, 2016 2:03 pm

Post by EricaT »

bornintheuk wrote:1.Yes
2.Yes (2)
3.No
4.Two
5. 85-90%
6. Yes - since 1997
7.Did have in France, now retired, wife runs painting courses in winter and sells a few paintings.

We came over here with 2 young kids of 2 and 4 yrs who went through the French school system to Uni level.

Would not change a thing, best move we ever made leaving the grey old UK.
Thank-you BornintheUK :D
vacancesthezan
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Re: Gites...anyone actually earning a living?

Post by vacancesthezan »

EricaT wrote: Why would you not have considered doing it with children? Is it simply because of the work load?
Lots of helpful stuff here, thank-you!!
The workload mainly - not just the amount but that you will be busiest when the kids are off school (and wanting their holidays and parents particularly when they are younger).

4 school runs a day in France

The living costs are greater and you would require more personal space with a family. Your guests will look for private space (both inside and out) and so should you or you will quickly come to resent your renters!

VT
la vache!
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Post by la vache! »

What Bassman said.
I'm a single mother with 2 kids (16 and 10) and have been out here running gites since 2002, I also teach in the week so it is possible to have kids and run gites as many others do (and often this is welcomed by gite guests if you are in the family market). Unless you live in a really touristy area there are 'empty' periods where you can do the maintenance and renovating.
I have a pool and massive garden to maintain, but as well as teaching I manage to indulge my passion of running, so it is possible to have a life. As you aren't a couch potato, enjoy hard work, don't mind spending a lot of time ironing, cleaning etc. and don't mind not going on holiday in the school holidays you'll be fine.
In hindsight I would live nearer a bus stop so that the children could get the bus instead of me doing aller retours to school/bus stop every day.
petitbois
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Post by petitbois »

this is our 14th year & we have yet to make a profit, mainly due to our high outgoings & being on reel simplifie we can offset expenses against income...
1. yes, 3 times that in a good year
2.yes
3.yes
4. Gitefor2, family gite, 4 B&B suites
5. Gites 90%, B&B 15%
6. 14
7. yes other rental properties (long term tenants)
think it is virtually impossible to make an income out of it if you factor in your time (often 16hr days, 7 days/ wk for weeks on end during the season)the weeks spent preparing during the winter months, decorating, maintaining + extra costs for pool testing, TV licences, SACEM, cotisations etc etc.......& of course now we are all having to pay commission to listing sites, bdotcom etc - 2015 we paid bdotcom alone over 2000euros in commission
Pirou
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Location: A bit north of Pirou, Normandy (50)

Post by Pirou »

1- Do you run gites and earn/gros £15'000 + per annum? NO

2 - Do you have a pool? NO but close to sea and beaches

3 - Are you within walking distance of a shop/bar/restaurant? YES

4 - How many gites do you have? one

5 - What percentage of your guests are British? 50%

6 - Have you been established 3 years + 3rd year this year

7 - Do you have an another income besides the gites or are the gites your sole income? (i.e. rental property back in uk or partner working away). 2 outside incomes. One sleeps 4 gite in Normandy won't support a family but it will supplement a pension.

When we holidayed in France in gites and cottages, my first criterion was location: edge of village or small town, peaceful garden, ideally edge of farm/woodland or forest but must be within 15 - 20 minutes maximum walk of boulangerie, bar / bar-restaurant, and small supermarket. French country towns are usually dead after about 9 pm so on the outskirts you might just as well be in very rural France.

Drink drive laws are more stringent than in England so not having to designate someone as the driver is important I think.

More people want what I've described than really want 15 minutes drive from civilisation ime. A lot of people don't like the total darkness that comes with being very rural, it makes them uneasy.

If you're going to be running craft courses, I think being within easy reach of bar / restaurant is even more important as your guests won't necessarily want to go food shopping and start cooking after a day learning a craft. Cooking for them is an option but would be very hard work after you've been teaching all day and probably not very profitable. I think there are hygiene courses to do too in order to get a licence.

I've read your comments on the other forum and it is a bit of a gloom fest but I think the comments are coming from experience and seeing what others have done. You may not like what they are saying there but the points I think they are valid. The one person's awful experience with the education system may be extreme though and extremes can usually be factored out of information you make a decision on.
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French Cricket
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Post by French Cricket »

1- Do you run gites and earn/gros £15'000 + per annum? No. But have done in past (euros not pounds) and could do now, but we're letting for a restricted number of weeks now because of my other activities.

2 - Do you have a pool? No

3 - Are you within walking distance of a shop/bar/restaurant? No

4 - How many gites do you have? Two - one on site, one 3 hours away (first year for that this year). Several guests booked for 2 centre holidays

5 - What percentage of your guests are British? 70%

6 - Have you been established 3 years? + 7 years altogether - first 5 years as chambres d'hôtes/gîte hybrid, now purely gîte.

7 - Do you have an another income besides the gites or are the gites your sole income? (i.e. rental property back in uk or partner working away). Small social work and civil service pensions.

It's such a subjective thing, this - our on-site gîte is in the middle of nowhere, no street lights (not even a street, just a forest track), no public transport nearby, we don't take children, no pool ... in many ways it shouldn't work, but it does and we book up from April to October every year (closed for the rest of the year). Petisbois is spot on about 'real' profit - if you cost your hours I think you'd be hard pressed to see one. It all depends on what you want from your lifestyle, whether you see what you're doing as 'work' and whether you're happy to do it for 50 centimes an hour :lol:

There's somebody else on here who started a gîte with crafting holidays last year - if I can remember who it is I'll come back on this thread.
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GRL
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Post by GRL »

My husband reckons that the small profit we make from the gite is more than the interest we would have got from the money we used to renovate it just sitting in the bank. We also get to meet some lovely people, some of whom have become wonderful friends ... and we can live the life we want for us and our boys that would have been hard to do in the UK - rural location, smallholding and bringing up 2 totally bilingual boys.
Ecosse
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Post by Ecosse »

1- Do you run gites and earn/gros £15'000 + per annum? Our accountant is hopeful that we'll make a profit this year. Of course, it's not as if we've been living on nothing these past 3 years - savings and some creative living conditions have supplemented/stretched our income.

2 - Do you have a pool? No, it's not necessary to have one here to attract custom. Depends where you are, though.

3 - Are you within walking distance of a shop/bar/restaurant? Yes, and this makes a huge difference to the amount of custom we receive.

4 - How many gites do you have? One big, very versatile one. 5 rooms that can be conbined (to make one of the only gites in the area that can cater for large families), sold separately, sold as chambre d'hote or individual room, workers welcome and communal kitchen. It's effectively the equivalent of 5 individual gites which, the longer I'm in the business, the more I think is the benchmark minimum number to be able to make a living from.

5 - What percentage of your guests are British? Less than 5%

6 - Have you been established 3 years + Yes, just over 3 years. If you make it to 3 years, the chances are you've got past the tax/bureaucracy/teething problems and will be okay.

7 - Do you have an another income besides the gites or are the gites your sole income? (i.e. rental property back in uk or partner working away). No - there's no time to take on any other work.

As others have said, though, location, location, location. It is so important, and while gites in the middle of nowhere can work, they have to be in a desirable area, with lots locally for your guests to do. Otherwise, you'd have to ensure you can offer everything they need on site - a la retreat style - relaxation, envigoration or, as you're considering, specialist crafting holidays. To get people to book, your guests will need all their needs catered for, including good meals, evening activities, and access to a bar or at least a bottle of wine or two... all of which could be tricky for you to juggle with a young family.

If you're not willing to sacrifice your family life that much, I would consider looking for a less isolated place that doesn't need the same level of input from you to fill the gites. If you would still like an isolated location, then perhaps it would be better to approach your venture from the angle that it will never provide you with a living, but it will enable you to afford to live in an idyllic location.
EricaT
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Post by EricaT »

Thank-you so much everybody for taking the time to answer all my questions, I really appreciate it. I've been a member of various illustration forums over the years and have noticed that opinions on one can vary wildly from opinions on another. Of course I'm going to listen to all the advice I receive and listen to it, I'm not just hearing what i want to hear. I'm thoroughly researching lots of different peoples experiences so I can make a judgement. :D
Thank-you again everyone, I've got a lot to chew over here.
Erica X

PS - If anyone wants to buy a good book for their little ones/grandchildren...I'm going to be cheeky and recommend this new one form Dame Jessica Ennis hill...illustrated by moi
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Silver-Unicorn ... ennis+hill :wink: :wink: :wink:
Emmy
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Post by Emmy »

Hello Erica... I might be the person French Cricket referred to - I started a gite business here in France last summer and run craft workshops and holidays as well. We haven't been in business for a year yet - we started last July - but I'm pretty sure we'll have earned €15.000 despite it being the first year. We do have a pool, but are not near a bar - there's a boulangerie about 1km away. I'd say the pool, for us, was essential - everyone loved it and spent their days in/around it - I didn't realise how important it was! We have two gites ( 3 bed/sleeps 6 and 2 bed/sleeps 4) and these are set up so we can offer 3 ensuite B&B rooms too - though we've not started marketing that side of things yet - see below. Almost all our guests so far have been British - apart from a long weekend (10 people) French wedding party last September and a sewing holiday guest from Spain in October. I tried Pour les Vacances - hence the wedding party - but didn't try other international listing sites because, since it was our first year, there was simply too much else to do, properly anyway! From talking to other local people I think we should do that and it's something you should certainly consider doing yourself. We don't have any other income and don't draw any sort of pension; this is our livelihood. Despite only opening on 24th July last year, we've got healthy bookings for this year.

I run Textile and Sewing holidays, plus regular workshops too. That's mainly why we've got the B&B flexibility here. I've got a large craft studio especially designed for this purpose - like you, my plan was (see below) to focus on activity holidays outside of the main July/August holidays, because that's really where my interest lies. This side is definitely taking off as well, so again, I'd like to encourage you with that idea. I intended to also start making things to sell - I did that years ago in the uk - but have been so busy organising and delivering the workshops and getting the holidays sorted, that I haven't got round to it yet. So far I've been running one-to-one holidays although it's set up so I can take 3-5 students and accommodate them. I'm happy with this for the first year because it's an excellent way for me to see what's needed and what I need to do differently! Unfortunately.... All my hard work in promoting this will be wasted... We moved here after a double bereavement and without much research - I admire your planning - which was very unlike me... We have a holiday home in Italy and LOVE it there, and actually are not quite getting on with France!! It's such a pity because we love our house and the area, we love what we do, what we've created here, we just don't feel France is right for us. Also, the Italian house has a small mortgage and I wish we'd cleared it, because actually this business DOES make us a reasonable living, but paying for TWO homes (bills etc too) when you've only just started up a business is just too much to expect. I'm happy to answer any questions if you want to message me. Best wishes. Emmy
Le Manoir
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Post by Le Manoir »

Hello Erica, thought I would add a bit about our place.
We have a boulangerie and restaurant/bar within walking distance - a big bonus. Supermarket 10 mins drive.
2 pools - one for the main house with 6 bedrooms (12 people) and one for the 4 separate gites (max 12 people). Neither are heated and, if we were putting them in from new, would do that.
Been here 7 years but it was up and running when we bought it although the previous owners had let it run down. It was a 10 year plan when we bought it. Nothing left in the UK apart from lots of family.
Mainly UK, USA, Canada, Australians and New Zealanders as guests. Last year more French, this year even more French. Airbnb has made a big difference and the tourist board has been marketing our area.
Massive learning curve, despite the fact that we did 2 seasons working for Eurocamp as mature couriers! This gave us a great background on customer service and level of cleaning.
The more gites you have, the more money you spend on maintenance and all other costs - tv tax, sacem, etc etc.
We are just two people, do all the gardening, decorating, spring cleaning and pools. We have some help with the cleaning in the height of the summer.
No other form of income - although I'm eligible to take a pension later this year which will be very welcome!!
It has been stressful and enjoyable in equal measures. Are we glad we've done it - yes. What will we do when we've sold it - no idea!!
Good luck - it's not easy.
Pixietoadstool
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Making money from a gîte

Post by Pixietoadstool »

Hi Erica - late in the day - sorry!

We opened our little gîte apartment for 2 people at the end of July last year and we have achieved 50% occupancy and it looks like a profit of €12k in our first year (as in money left after paying for maintenance, insurance, food supplies, electricity etc.,). This figure includes a few weeks B&B we have offered to people when the gîte is already booked - often people are happy to wait a few days in the B&B for the gîte to become available.

It is in our old French farmhouse in the Cévennes and in the middle of nowhere - you have to drive at least 10 minutes to get to the bakery and 15 minutes to the nearest small town. We don't have a pool but we are surrounded by the most amazing wildlife, scenery and nature. We have capitalised on that and advertise it as "a haven of peace for walking and wildlife". We are thrilled with our success and we have met some adorable people - all looking to get away from it all. We have some wonderful reviews too.

So you don't have to have a gîte in the middle of civilisation as long as your guests have a car.

To be honest only about 10% of our weeks have been British - most of our clients are French with also quite a few Germans, Dutch and Belgians. We advertise on our own website and also Homeaway / Abritel and AirBnB and the local tourist office.

I have tried to be different by being generous. We make the beds with quality bedlinen and provide towels and everything they could want when they arrive (without charging as a lot of French gîtes do) - a long list of things including bread, cheese, milk, kitchen roll, toilet paper, pasta, pasta sauce, butter, saucisson, home made jams, wine, washing up liquid, candles, herbs, olive oil, balsamic vinegar and more plus our own produce from the garden. I do believe this generosity has paid off and so our reviews have been very good. We make a real fuss of our guests - it is so important to make people feel welcome. We are putting our rates up by 10% next year and fingers crossed that won't put people off!

We don't charge a damages deposit either. So far we think we are lucky as we have attracted some like minded souls.

I chose the decor to attract arty or bohemian types and made a point of emphasising the peace and wildlife aspects. So far it has worked very well and it can for you too if you concentrate on your target audience and the things that would attract them in terms of the images and text on your website! Of course it helps to speak French and also to be in an area with so much cultural activity.

The Cévennes is not yet very well known to British tourists but it is becoming so. There are lots of other things to do in an hour's journey from here and in the summer you can't find a gîte to rent for love nor money unless you book early in the year.

So there you are - it can be done!

Take a look at our website: www.le-rouquet.fr

Bon courage!
Love not fear!
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