What's happened to Owner Holidays?

OTA = Online Travel Agency, which means those sites that sell the booking and take the payment for you.
e-richard
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Post by e-richard »

Nigel Goodwin wrote:.. But let me first check exactly what other sites do.....
NO you definitely do not want to do that. You may end up deciding that all guests will have deal with and pay through your site only :wink: :lol: :lol:

Seriously though, try making it an owner option.

Whereas the big OTAs tell us how to behave, you could earn a lot of brownie points putting decisions like this on the Owners.
** Richard
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GRL
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Post by GRL »

Codliveroil wrote:
Get rid of the guests have to register or login completely, this stops any inquiries and is one reason why I have not had one inquiry since I listed. Nor have I had one click through to my website, the reason is mentioned below..
Absolutely get rid of guests having to log in. Use a simple captcha if you want to prevent spam. However, I fear there may be other reasons why owners are not getting enquiries - the system, I am afraid, is not working ...

Using my own gite listing I tried to contact the gite via the Book Now button but was told I needed to log in but there was nowhere on the page to do so. I had to go back to the home page, sign up and then navigate back to the gite page to try again.

Before doing this I tried to use the "Contact Owner" button (still not logged in) but it said I needed to log in. I could however access the gite via the "website" buttom.

So I created a different account and logged in. On logging in I get a pop up box saying the site is insecure and my details could be seen by others so I assume you have no SSL certificate. I did proceed and once back on the site I got to the gite listing by using the back button. Possibly because of this when I tried to use the Book Now button but it told me I needed to log in so I refreshed the page and this time I was able to send through my Book Now request. My request appeared to go but I received no email notification so I have no record of my request. I also tried to use the Contact Owner button but the pop up box simply disappeared a second or so after I pressed send.

As a potential guest I think it very unlikley I would have bothered getting far enough to send a request.

I then logged out and logged back in as me, the gite owner. In the meantime I had received an email saying I had a booking request:

Hi there,
You have received a new booking request on http://www.ownerholidays.com ! Go to your account in Bookings page to see the request.

The property is: http://www.ownerholidays.com/properties/xxx/

The person requesting was XXX and their email is xxx@gmail.com

The link to the website and the link to the email can be clicked on but there is no Owner holidays logo or anything and there is no point clicking to reply to the email at this point as there is no information about the booking.

So I head to the dashboard where I do find information on the login name of the guests, their email, the dates requested and for how many. Below this I have a red box that says "Delete Booking Request" There is nothing to allow me to contact the guest and the email now is not clickable. The only way I can contact them is to go BACK to my emails, click on their email address there (or copy and paste from the dashboard) and then reply, hoping I do not make an error when I copy over dates, names etc. It isn't workable.

And as for the message I sent the gite via the "Contact Owner" button, that never arrived.

Like others before me have already said, we would love to see Owner Holidays succeed. At the moment it won't because it isn't functioning. Even if by some slim chance a guest were to find the site, I very much doubt they would bother getting far enough to make a booking request. Furthermore if they used the contact email the owner will not reply as they never received it. I for one am very unhappy thinking that a potential guest is cross because the owner they thought they had contacted didn't bother replying. This is not how I run my business and I do not want a guest heading somewhere like Trip Advisor or my social media accounts and adding poor reviews based on something that was out of my control. I appreciate you have given me a free listing but that still needs to be something that is workable for both the owner and guests and anything less than that could potentially have a negative impact on my business. For these reasons I have currently disabled my listing.
Nigel Goodwin
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Post by Nigel Goodwin »

Many thanks for all this feedback. It is clear that things are not as they should be, and I have dropped the ball/bat a bit, but will start to address these issues in the next few weeks.

Some may be quite easy to fix.

I can confirm that clicking on the website button takes you to the owner's website. But 'contact owner' and 'book now' requires you to be logged in. 'Book now' is a bit misleading, as it actually just gets prices and then sends a booking request, the booking is always made with the owner/agency.

I have gotcha checks etc. elsewhere, so it may not be difficult to put a bit of security in.

To contact the owner, or send a booking request, an email address would be needed anyway. I can add this to the forms, or have a simple pop-up.
Bordering
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Post by Bordering »

PLEASE don’t ‘flame' me for this post! I feel it needs saying.

Enough time has passed for everyone who takes notice to become aware of the true cost of the big sites, and with their massive launch investment they have cornered the market; and lax oversight by regulators has allowed their cartel-like behaviour to go unchallenged. This will probably change, but not anytime soon. £16,700 of booking for one of my properties via Airbnb, with all of them under the lower rate threshold, means that the true cost of using their service to generate those bookings is about £2500.

Someone operating a directory offering ads which are either free or at minimal cost, and not charging commission, doesn’t have a cat’s chance in hell of making a noticeable dent in the market. That takes budget; without budget it’s impossible.

If that person was an SEO whizz who could achieve high rankings in Google and serious bulk distribution via Facebook (and other places, though they matter less) they might as well sign up for the various affiliate programmes - Booking.com, cottages4you, Sykes and all the other usual suspects. By doing that they could potentially generate some quite serious income at the typically 5% of bookings value those firms pay. There is simply not a living to be had from offering for free, or virtually free, a service for which the primary competitors charge a lot. We should stop hoping that someone out there will achieve this miracle for us - why should they, and how could they?
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Rogthedodge
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Post by Rogthedodge »

That is bordering on a flame post.. :-)

I have to say, well said. But what are we to do about it. We are all trying to support OH, THL and the like hoping upon hope that something will come of it.

Are we grasping at straws...I really do not want to lay down with my legs in air saying, kick me here...!!
Deary me am I real.

www.holiday-rentals.com/52179
Nigel Goodwin
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Post by Nigel Goodwin »

Bordering wrote: why should they, and how could they?
Because I want to :roll:

I agree with everything you say. But I have a stubborn streak. May take time to get there, and I do need to make sure I can pay my bills. To be frank, I have had to take on some contracting work for a few months just to cover bills during the winter season, and until I sell one of my properties.

But also it must be more than a part time hobby.

My only external costs are the price of a server each month, £125.

It would, of course, be much more comfortable if 1000 different owners each invested £1000. Then my first step would be to employ a full time experienced digital marketing professional, with a significant budget. Then run away with the rest of the investment :D .

I have seen SimplyOwners advertise on television, they must have deep pockets, or else they have enough owners paying subscription.

To give an idea, it would probably take a week of my time to fix the above issues regarding guest login.

That is over £2000 of lost contracting time.

My time is not free.

I have issued mail shots to many thousands inviting angel funding, zero response.

I am on various forums and LinkedIn groups.

I was charging £50 per property to advertise at one point, I got I think 2 owners who paid. So I reverted to free.

This is probably TMI, but I tore up the business handbook many years ago. Whatever conventional wisdom says, do the opposite. :shock:
COYS
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Post by COYS »

Bordering wrote:PLEASE don’t ‘flame' me for this post! I feel it needs saying.

Enough time has passed for everyone who takes notice to become aware of the true cost of the big sites, and with their massive launch investment they have cornered the market; and lax oversight by regulators has allowed their cartel-like behaviour to go unchallenged. This will probably change, but not anytime soon. £16,700 of booking for one of my properties via Airbnb, with all of them under the lower rate threshold, means that the true cost of using their service to generate those bookings is about £2500.

Someone operating a directory offering ads which are either free or at minimal cost, and not charging commission, doesn’t have a cat’s chance in hell of making a noticeable dent in the market.
That takes budget; without budget it’s impossible.

If that person was an SEO whizz who could achieve high rankings in Google and serious bulk distribution via Facebook (and other places, though they matter less) they might as well sign up for the various affiliate programmes - Booking.com, cottages4you, Sykes and all the other usual suspects. By doing that they could potentially generate some quite serious income at the typically 5% of bookings value those firms pay. There is simply not a living to be had from offering for free, or virtually free, a service for which the primary competitors charge a lot. We should stop hoping that someone out there will achieve this miracle for us - why should they, and how could they?
Valid points Bordering, but some of those pre-monopoly websites were doing very well indeed if their company records are accurate.

For me personally it is not about cost & percentages (if it were there are certainly far easier & more lucrative ways of earning a living than holiday rental) Like many who invest money, time & effort into their small business I feel I have earned the right to run it as I see fit - not under the ever increasing & constantly changing demands of corporate behemoths.
Certainly there are many thousands of owners & agents that are happy to concede elements of contact, policy, payments, cashflow etc in return for the corporate 'safety net'. Nothing wrong with that IF it works for you, but one size doesn't fit all & there are plenty more who strive to be more than just an impotent sub-contractor.
I don't see why they should just give up & rollover either because if they do the current triopoly will be left to either fight it out amongst themselves or manipulate the marketplace at will.
This time next year Rodney, we'll be millionaires.
Codliveroil
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Post by Codliveroil »

Bordering wrote: We should stop hoping that someone out there will achieve this miracle for us - why should they, and how could they?
Nigel has started out on this road and when it all comes together it will be mutually lucrative for him and those that advertise will get bookings.

A few notes.

Crowd funding ain't going to happen, Nigel you are on your own, but then that's a good thing you will reap all the profit.And no-one is going to pay subscription up front until they see a website with no technical flaws and until your site comes up high in search.

You don't need to spend mega bucks on SEO, Geeks or advertising. If your website is on page 1,2 and 3 on Google things will work. My own, 1 villa, piddly website is ranked by Google at 24 (3rd page) for ALL my keywords, 24 is the average for all search terms, so I am position 1-10 for many, 11-20 for many, down to 40-50 for many. The point is that I have not paid 1 penny for any of this, just did it myself a few hours every day for the last 2 months.

Once your site is spot on and up in Google then folks will get inquiries and then you can start with subscription. Then modify your site to take commission as well. (a big jump).

One HUGE thing you could start with as you correct the site this week is make it mandatory for folks with a "visit website button" ( link to their own websites) is for them to place a "follow" reciprocal link to OH on their own sites, takes them only a minute to do, and no-one will mind. This will give you massive instant Link Juice for your site, and you will soar in Google rankings.

Nigel I have no idea what you know about SEO perhaps I am preaching to the converted, or describing to you how to suck eggs, forgive me, but an analysis of your site shows virtually no SEO. I am no expert myself but am prepared to help where I can, email me.

1.Site has to work correctly
2.Site has to be Traveler friendly and traveler orientated.
3.Site has to be Technically sound as search engines see it.(SE0)
4. Keywords, anchor text and link building have to become priority (SEO)
Nigel Goodwin
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Post by Nigel Goodwin »

Codliveroil wrote:
Bordering wrote: We should stop hoping that someone out there will achieve this miracle for us - why should they, and how could they?
as you correct the site this week is make it mandatory for folks with a "visit website button" ( link to their own websites) is for them to place
I never said I will improve it this week. I said it will take a week of my time! I have a full time contracting job. I may have some time in April or May.

Reciprocal links are not necessarily the way to go.

I use the Yoast tools to do SEO.

It would be nice to think a few google ad words will do the trick, that's fine if you have a niche property, but more difficult when you are global. Been there, done that, a few thousand pounds more poor.
Codliveroil
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Post by Codliveroil »

Nigel Goodwin wrote:
Codliveroil wrote:
Bordering wrote: We should stop hoping that someone out there will achieve this miracle for us - why should they, and how could they?
as you correct the site this week is make it mandatory for folks with a "visit website button" ( link to their own websites) is for them to place
I never said I will improve it this week. I said it will take a week of my time! I have a full time contracting job. I may have some time in April or May.

Reciprocal links are not necessarily the way to go.
Sorry, I'm out!
rosebud
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Post by rosebud »

Hi Nigel
I sent you a message to the e mail on your site a week or 2 ago about problems I had setting seasonal rates.
Would appreciate help with this
Best wishes
Jenny
Gettingthere
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Post by Gettingthere »

Nigel

I have great hopes that you could make something happen with OH and with a degree of enthusiasm from you and (importantly) your users, word COULD be spread quite effectively.

However, people have to feel really good and really positive about what you're providing. You started off great guns but let it fizzle. I see little point in having 1000s of listings if the moment anyone tries out the site they find it frustrating or glitchy.

Frankly it would have been better to get the functionality near perfect before recruiting too many subscribers. First impressions mean everything! If they don't like it first time they wont be back.

While of course I have huge sympathy with the fact that you are doing this for nothing and meanwhile you need to earn a living (!!), leaving the site sitting there in its current state until April....May... June...etc is seriously counterproductive. You are killing any hope of gaining any traction in the future. Without an advertising budget you totally rely on early adopters to help it build a head of steam; currently they will sadly look once and write it off.

I would strongly suggest:
1. Completely pull the site for now and work on it behind the scenes
2. Revamp the look and functionality (inspiring new logo, easy instinctive search function etc etc.)
3. Use a few of us here to test a private prototype.
4. Relaunch only when perfect!

I'm desperate for an alternative to the 'big boys'. And i really do want you to succeed. But sadly at the moment you're killing all your own hard work by leaving it sitting there in its current state.

Newtoit
Nigel Goodwin
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Post by Nigel Goodwin »

Newtoit wrote:Nigel

4. Relaunch only when perfect!

Newtoit
That is well-known as an approach which kills a software company!
russellt
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Post by russellt »

Newtoit wrote: 4. Relaunch only when perfect!
Purleeeease!

So, no Microsoft, no Apple, no Google, no Android.........

Msoft's BSOD was part & parcel of innovation, AND we paid a fortune for it. :shock:
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Gettingthere
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Post by Gettingthere »

Ok so ‘perfect’ may be an overstatement. But at least functioning mostly very smoothly. There are obvious glitches in OH which were there months and months ago.

Do you think that will inspire people to return?
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