Taxe de Sejour from 2019 - surely not €300+?

For topics that are specific to France, please go here.
Dusty
Posts: 356
Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2012 3:32 pm
Location: St Cernin de Labarde, Dordogne
Contact:

Post by Dusty »

Bassman wrote: It is the same Dusty i can remember how much but if we pay 70cts instead of 1.10€ we would save around 3-400€ a year.
I forgot to mention the TS for Chambres d'hote is 70cts per nuitee in my area.
Thanks Bassman, looked at it like that you end up in pocket; like us, you must absorb the TdS in your rental charges. If they keep on putting the rate up I am inclined to pass the charge straight to our guests.
Frenchlady
Posts: 187
Joined: Mon Dec 09, 2013 1:52 pm
Location: Dordogne
Contact:

Post by Frenchlady »

Thank you Dusty thank goodness it seems we can just charge the 0.44c (although I will have to query this amount as not usual for it to do down!!!!). Thought we would have to charge the 3% which would just make our nightly rate too expensive for what we are. They do like making these difficult.
SPJ
Posts: 468
Joined: Mon Dec 28, 2015 9:01 am
Location: Aquitaine
Contact:

Post by SPJ »

Just to add to the info, we are in Lot-et-Garonne and I've received an email from our tourist office stating:

Le tarif de la taxe sera à calculer pour chaque nuitée en function du nombres d'occupants, du tarif HT de la location et du pourcentage de 3%....

They are quite switched on and they are busy creating an online platform to make it easy to calculate what guests will pay.

They also say they will come back to us "as soon as possible" about what the implications are for online platforms.

Up until now our tds has been a flat 40 cents per adult per night. If I've understood correctly, looks as if in high season next year (£790 per week) tds will be roughly 1.0 euros per person, per night and in low season (£430 per week) tds will be roughly 50 cents per person per night. (Not clear from what they've sent whether it will just be applied to adults.)

At the moment I too do not ask my guests to pay. I'm surprised it seems to be such an issue - why does it matter where the tax comes from so long as it's paid?

I'll be checking with our tourist office next week what it will mean in practice. Not least, because our guests pay in sterling in the UK, I need to have an agreed exchange rate. (This could be fun with the online platforms.)

We'll take a view then as to whether to continue to absorb the tax or to pass it on to our guests. If we decide to do the latter, I'd make it clear when they book that this will be an additional "local guest tax" and explain that I will be collecting it in euros at the end of their stay.
User avatar
Bassman
Posts: 757
Joined: Tue Oct 05, 2010 1:08 pm
Location: Charente Maritime
Contact:

Post by Bassman »

During our high season we (June-mid september) include taxe sejour in our prices the rest of the year it is excluded and is collected end of stay. The same goes for linen, beds made up and cleaning.
GillianF
Posts: 826
Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2012 12:06 pm
Location: Dordogne

Post by GillianF »

Out of high season you charge extra for linen, making beds and cleaning?
User avatar
Bassman
Posts: 757
Joined: Tue Oct 05, 2010 1:08 pm
Location: Charente Maritime
Contact:

Post by Bassman »

GillianF wrote:Out of high season you charge extra for linen, making beds and cleaning?
Yes! Most of our bookings out of season are for French groups who rent all four properties plus a small salle de fete, we have a base price which excludes cleaning, linen & t/s. Most guest around half go for the base price bring their own linen and clean up after then we charge t/s as they leave. Some just rent the linen other around 10% pay extra to have the beds made.
GillianF
Posts: 826
Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2012 12:06 pm
Location: Dordogne

Post by GillianF »

Thank you - it would make sense in those circumstances. The French driving for family events etc. are, obviously, a different kettle of fish from the Brits coming on a family/annual holiday.
SPJ
Posts: 468
Joined: Mon Dec 28, 2015 9:01 am
Location: Aquitaine
Contact:

Post by SPJ »

Finally been to the tourist office and had a very useful meeting. I'm fortunate in that I already have all my bookings for next year and so can do real calculations on the impact for our business. At the moment we are not classified and we do not charge our (GB) guests an additional amount for their TdS.
This year we have paid 56.80 euros for 142 tourist nights (0.40 € tax)
Next year, our tourist nights will be 161. If we remain unclassified we will have to use the complex formula (see previous post) and our TdS will increase to 192.78 €.
If we go for classification we would not aim for a high star rating and would not advertise it to our guests (no point, we have 5 star reviews on HA). If we go for a 2 star classification the flat rate would be 0.70€ so we would pay 112.70
However, to be classified for five years we would have to pay 200 euros up front. Worth it if we are certain we will still be doing at least this level of business over the next 5 years, but we may not be (both in our 70s already).
So we've decided. We will continue to be unclassified. We already have all our guests for next year booked. We cannot now ask them to pay an additional amount for TdS, so we will continue to do as we've done up to now and pay it. From 2020 onwards however we will add it to our terms and conditions and our booking forms and have it displayed on our website and we will expect our guests to pay it. We will also warn our guests coming in 2019 what the implications are with the change. For example, we have one set of high season returners whose TdS will be 53.09 euros for this coming year. Up until now their TdS would have been 11.20 € (which is why we've always been happy to pay it). If we were to have a 2 star classification they would only be paying 19.60 €.

I think this shows pretty clearly that anyone who is younger / building their business and expecting to be around for the long term, it clearly makes sense to go for classification (but maybe not too high a one!) and remain with a flat rate TdS. It's much cheaper for your high season guests and it is much easier for you to calculate.

Some additional info that came out of our discussion:
As I quote my prices in £ for the UK market and the TdS is paid in euros, I asked her what exchange rate to apply. It had never occured to her. So I suggested I would take the rate our accountant uses for our tax returns and she was happy with that. I think this is a level of detail they are not that interested in.
There is no concern at all (at least in our region) WHO pays the TdS. She was completely relaxed about the fact that I've paid it in the past and will continue to this coming year. She says I'm not alone in this.
She tells me HomeAway will also probably be implementing collecting TdS at source, but they have not yet confirmed and it may be January 1st (!) or more likely July 1st.
Our tourist office have yet to see any money from ABnB because it's been such a shambles. It is likely that the large groups will hold on to the TdS money for as long as possible (surprise, surprise) and whilst eventually it will be to the benefit of the tourist offices there's going to be a large gap in their finances short term.
Excuse the long posting, but for those of you looking at the implications of the change I thought it might be helpful, especially as I'm dealing with real future bookings rather than just the theory.
Dusty
Posts: 356
Joined: Wed Dec 19, 2012 3:32 pm
Location: St Cernin de Labarde, Dordogne
Contact:

Post by Dusty »

That's very useful SPJ, thanks for taking the time to update us, I think we will have to consider getting classified as it will be worth it in the long run and I think will do as you are going to do and swallow it for next year (we are not yet full but have a number of bookings already) but pass it on to our guests for 2020.
vacancesthezan
Posts: 311
Joined: Sat Jul 31, 2010 8:15 pm
Location: France
Contact:

Post by vacancesthezan »

Dusty wrote:That's very useful SPJ, thanks for taking the time to update us, I think we will have to consider getting classified as it will be worth it in the long run and I think will do as you are going to do and swallow it for next year (we are not yet full but have a number of bookings already) but pass it on to our guests for 2020.
By their own written rules our tourist office must tell us by 31st December what the taxe de sejour will be for the next year.

We found out that the tourist office had reduced their rate (for us) from 50cents per night to 40 cents per night in September this year (for 2018).

We have just done our declaration for 2018 (due by end November) and have passed on the 50cents per night that we have collected. Therefore unless we hear anything by 31st December we intend to publish and collect 40cents per person for 2019.

As we (and our guests) get nothing for the 50cents (or 40cents) per night we await their next missive! It would be lovely to live in an area where the OdeT actually worked for tourists. We wouldnt mind paying if we felt we were geting value for money!

VT
Peggymac
Posts: 80
Joined: Thu Jan 27, 2011 4:24 pm
Location: France
Contact:

Post by Peggymac »

As we said previously (quite a few pages back) we are classified by the prefecture in The Aveyron and in 2018 our TdS was 0,50 € per (non-exempt) person per night (501.50 € for 2 gites booked for 24 weeks each). Next year will be the same and for 5 years not a single client has thought it was an imposition.
For our group of communes the percentage for non-classified gites in 2019 will be 3% and the ceiling 0,70 € per person per night.

The OdT h as a professional area where we will be able to (and will have to) submit TdS online next year. HomeAway has already started demanding our registration number so it can correctly (I hope) assign any TdS that it MAY take on our behalf to our group of communes.

The real reason for this post is that while looking at their professional space I noticed...
Au 1er janvier 2019 : que se passe-t-il ?

Evolution du mode de calcul pour les hébergements en attente ou sans classement (étoiles).
Généralisation de la collecte par les opérateurs numériques tels que Airbnb, Abritel, service de réservation des Gites de France,… : la collecte devient obligatoire pour les professionnels qui assurent un service de réservation et qui sont intermédiaires de paiement pour le compte de loueurs.


Vous êtes un hébergement classé (étoiles), une chambre d’hôtes ou un terrain de camping

Les tarifs appliqués en 2018 ont été modifiés.
Attention : les hébergements labellisés Gites de France, Clévacances,… entrent dans la catégorie des hébergements non classés : voir rubrique ci-dessous.
My French isn't brilliant but I'm sure that the last bit is saying that Gites de France and Clévacances labelled gites will be treated as unclassified and will therefore need to be classified by the prefecture to get a star rating; otherwise they will be paying the hiked unclassified TdS costs !!

Google Translate also gave...
Please note: accommodation labelled Gites de France, Clévacances, ... fall into the category of unclassified accommodation
If anybody is interested in our commune's documentation it is here...https://portailtourisme-larzac.mataxedesejour.net/ The first bit you get to is where I found this. Gites de France owners might be interested and possibly ought to contact their own OdT to verify (if of course my translation is correct).
Peggy and Lionel

Always do Cooking, Bed Making and Website design with Love and the rest will follow.
www.casteldecantobre.co.uk
www.casteldecantobre.fr
www.facebook.com/CastelDeCantobre
SPJ
Posts: 468
Joined: Mon Dec 28, 2015 9:01 am
Location: Aquitaine
Contact:

Post by SPJ »

Hi Peggymac, that seems so strange since one of the classifying bodies in our tourist area is Gite de France. The woman in our tourist office gave me three alternatives, and they are one of the three.
Peggymac
Posts: 80
Joined: Thu Jan 27, 2011 4:24 pm
Location: France
Contact:

Post by Peggymac »

We went to a TdS meeting at the OdT where one woman was saying that she had 1 epis with GdF and 2 stars with the prefecture and I missed the nuance of the conversation where I thought she was told that she should use the star rating. I think now that the OdT was agreeing with her that the epis did not count and that she should use the star rating (why would you have a classification from both?).
We were told when we used to be with GdF that an epis was not the same as a star (almost more valuable). I suppose if people are being charged TdS based on a star rating then it should be a level playing field where everybody uses the same system?
Peggy and Lionel

Always do Cooking, Bed Making and Website design with Love and the rest will follow.
www.casteldecantobre.co.uk
www.casteldecantobre.fr
www.facebook.com/CastelDeCantobre
Peggymac
Posts: 80
Joined: Thu Jan 27, 2011 4:24 pm
Location: France
Contact:

Post by Peggymac »

Having done a bit of research (out of interest as it doesn't affect us) I have found quite a few references to a label (GdF, Clévacances...) not being the same as a classification. As from Jan 1 2019 being labelled is not being classified. It appears that classification is only done by the prefecture.

https://www.paysapt-luberon.fr/wp-conte ... ON_WEB.pdf
https://www.brive-tourisme.com/blog/nou ... n-classes/


Has France finally got fed up with the rubbish GdF monopoly?

Not connected to this posting, have a nice Christmas.
Peggy and Lionel

Always do Cooking, Bed Making and Website design with Love and the rest will follow.
www.casteldecantobre.co.uk
www.casteldecantobre.fr
www.facebook.com/CastelDeCantobre
User avatar
oasiscouple
Posts: 456
Joined: Wed Oct 31, 2012 11:55 am
Location: Port Leucate, France
Contact:

Post by oasiscouple »

Peggymac wrote: It appears that classification is only done by the prefecture.
Not the Prefecture but by an organisation proposed by your local Tourist Office.
Honi soit qui peu y boit
Post Reply