Where is my IBI?? !

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TheBrewster
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Where is my IBI?? !

Post by TheBrewster »

I'm trying to create my advert for Spain-Holidays and I am tantalisingly close. But.
I need our latest IBI bill and neither our solicitor nor our tax man in Spain seems to have a copy. I know I'm probably being very stupid here but any ideas on where I can find it?
The tax man sent me one from 2015 with the old owners names on for some reason :oops:
Thanks in advance,
Gemma
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CSE
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Post by CSE »

welcome to LMH.
IBI is nothing related to the "tax man".
The collection of IBI is undertaken by the ayuntamiento (local town hall). If you own a property, you should pay IBI. When purchasing a house the payment and the change of details should have been done by your solicitor, if you employed one.
Ayuntamientos send out written requests for IBI payments. The letters will explain how, where and by what date IBI payments must be made.
Ayuntamientos offer discounts for prompt payment.
All town halls add surcharges for late payment.
IBI is payable on an annual basis. Once sorted out think about setting up a standing order to avoid any unnecessary surcharges for late payment.*
Note that whether or not you receive a payment request from your town hall, legally the responsibility lies with the property owner to pay the tax on time, each year.
Use your “firma digital” to request more details about your property here:
https://www.sedecatastro.gob.es/
Go to the ayuntamiento and speak to them about where the payments are being sent to and to see how much is owed, if anything. * If you are very lucky the previous owner(s) may still be making payments. However that will mean you will not be able to obtain the information you require.
Good luck is sortign this one out. It may take a while.
Never try to out-stubborn your guests.
TheBrewster
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Post by TheBrewster »

Thankyou casasantoestevo!
Our solicitor is usually hot on stuff like this but she's giving me a real swerve on this.
I'll take a look at your link.
I'm so cross because it's literally the last thing I need.
Marks
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Post by Marks »

casasantoestevo wrote: Ayuntamientos offer discounts for prompt payment.
Lucky you. I have had properties under different town halls over the last 20 years and have never been offered a discount for paying early!
Some guests just need a sympathetic pat. On the head. With a hammer.
costa-brava
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Post by costa-brava »

Sorry, I'm a bit tardy once again but I thought it worthwhile commenting. If you don't have IBI receipts that rings big worry bells with me. For about the last ten years all "Notarios" in Spain have been obliged to obtain the up-to-date IBI receipts from the seller. That means that if you bought your property recently there will be a copy of these receipts or a certificate of payment attached to your copy of the famous "Escritura" that we sometimes call your title deeds. The seller is obliged to pay all of the local taxes for the current year regardless of the selling date.
Within the first 12 months after you buy the property, the seller must go to the town hall and register the change of ownership. It takes a full year before this filters through. The document he/she completes includes your identity details, your habitual residence and a phone contact number for you.
If the seller has not done this he/she will continue to get the bills for the local tax and lots of people have a direct debit set up with their bank.
It is important to note (as Casa has pointed out) that we are speaking of the local tax, not "the tax man". Also remember that the Spanish tax year for all matters goes from 1st Jan to 31st Dec.
I really do recommend that all of you out there dig out your escritura and check what is attached at the back. There should be photocopies of all the payments that you made in relation to the sale and these are extremely important when you eventually sell the property. If the previous owner had a mortgage it is horrendously important that it was cleared and that this was written into the property register.
If you don't have the escritura then really start searching.
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CSE
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Post by CSE »

Points for CB.
Escritura is stored at the Notary where it was signed at the time of purchase. It is usual to have a copia/nota simple. This document will not necessarily have correct details. This can be obtained via this website.
https://www.registradores.org/propiedad ... ciones.jsp
Never try to out-stubborn your guests.
costa-brava
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Post by costa-brava »

Totally correct Casa but that's not what I mean. When you get the "Nota Simple" of the escritura the Notary will have pinned a photocopy of all the additional receipts and certificates that pertain to the sale. You can get a copy of the "Nota Simple" any time. It is often more difficult to get copies of the other bits and pieces. That is why the escritura or nota simple that you get on the day of sale is so important. These days the total additional costs for a second-hand property amount to about 13% of the property value. If and when you sell the property you can add these costs to the purchase price thereby reducing your tax liability by a few thousand euros.
We're drifting away from the IBI question here but my principal point is that there should be significant reference to IBI and the related reference number of the "catastro" both in the detail of the "escritura" and in the bits and pieces tagged on at the back of the "nota simple".
If the property was bought in recent years and there is no clear mention of IBI in the escritura/nota simple then this raises significant questions about the legality of the property. The Brewster needs to get this sorted now, quite apart from getting his ad into Sp/hol. He needs to be paying IBI.
costa-brava
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Post by costa-brava »

Hello Brewster
Just had a simpler thought. You say that the man who does your taxes sent you an IBI receipt with the sellers name on it. OK, great! That's what you need. It doesn't matter that it is 2015. If you take it to your town hall "ayuntamiento" they will bring you up to date with the situation. If the previous owner hasn't done the change of owner like he should have, you can do it. In fact it is important that you do because if not, it will bring problems further down the line. They will almost certainly ask for the "escritura" or "nota simple" of the sale. They won't initiate a change of owner without that. This year 2019 has already started so if it is not in your name, it will be 2020 before you get an IBI bill in your name.
Most "ayuntamientos" have gone over to a system where you get a ticket when you enter then wait till your number comes up on a telly screen. If yours still hasn't adopted this system then there are two departments that can help you. One sorts out the "catastro" and the other is "recaptacion" which is the office that IBI is paid to. Maybe the easiest is to go to "recaptacion" in the first place. Don't worry about speaking Spanish. Everybody who is 40 or younger did English at school.
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Post by CSE »

Nota Simple is just that, basic information. No receipts, even the details can be different to what you have purchased. It is not a legal document.
The OP is doing things correctly by going to his solicitor. The alternative is the notary.
Never try to out-stubborn your guests.
costa-brava
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Post by costa-brava »

CASA The original enquirer has not replied since her "thank you" to yourself on the 6th of Feb. So it looks like she has moved on with the problem. But I do try to be as accurate as possible. I have here a document entitled "ESCRITURA DE COMPRAVENTA" that also has a stamp on it saying "Copia Simple" It refers to a flat that I sold in 2016. It is held together with two staples and also in the staples, after the last page there are 12 pages of photocopies of other relevant documents. These include the certificate from "catastro" with the catastro number clearly shown; the "cedula de habitabilidad (primera ocupacion)"; the energy certificate; the certificate from the Town Hall detailing my last 3 years of payment of IBI: photocopies of all the banker cheques I received in payment; the receipt for the payment I had to make for "provision de fondos" for clearing the mortgage in the property register; a 3-page extract from the property register; and a certificate from the administrator of the block to say my community dues were up to date.
The buyer got a similar copy and I also gave him photocopies of utility bills and my last IBI bill.
Like you say yourself, the actual "escritura that both parties sign with the notary must stay in his/her office but it is exceedingly important that everybody has a copy. And it is super important to know where it is.
AND MOST IMPORTANTLY. The copy that you are given on the day of the sale normally has lots of documents included at the back. On occasion these will be given to you separately but even then you are most likely to tuck them inside the cover of your copy of the escritura.
Over the years I have bought and later sold 9 different properties so when I offer help it is based on experience.
The procedures have changed over the years and nowadays the paperwork of the "notario" on the day of the sale is light-years ahead of even just 10 years ago.
So whether you call it "escritura" or "copia simple" it is still the same document. I'm not sure about "nota simple" but I think that's just a short extract from the property register.
TheBrewster
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Post by TheBrewster »

Sorry sorry-I've not moved on!
Thankyou for all your replies. I just haven't had a chance to sit and read through them yet.
I will tomorrow and come back. :)
TheBrewster
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Post by TheBrewster »

So-I just wanted to thank you both for your replies. I contacted our solicitor and she has gone/is going to the Town Hall.
All our paperwork is in Mallorca- we're going today so I will have a close look at what is included!
costa-brava
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Post by costa-brava »

Brewster, let's take a calmer look at the IBI thing.
Impuesto sobre Bienes Inmuebles is the local tax on home ownership just like the Council Tax in the UK. In the Uk it is banded while here in Spain they put a nominal value on each property to base the tax. The office who do this is the "Catastro" and on your IBI bill you will see "valor catastral" and you'll also find a long reference number "numero de referencia catastral". This reference number is the pivotal number for your house.
Casa and I got in a stooshy about the "Escritura" and other things but it is the catastro number that is so important and it should be along with your papers from the day of purchase. The reason that I have questioned your legal advisors is that this should have been sorted when you bought the house or shortly after. After you bought the house the previous owner should have done a change of owner which also involves him/her in paying some capital gains tax. If they didn't do it you will not have an IBI receipt in your name until the system catches up. If they made the change and you haven't been paying IBI it will now have a surcharge (I think 25%) and eventually they will put an embargo on your house.
If the previous owner was Spanish they would probably have done this in person or may have used a Gestor. If the previous owner was foreign, the notary would have taken a retainer from the seller to cover tax and costs and passed it to a Gestor. Casa did suggest you going back to the notary.
It's not just about getting an advert into SP/HOL. That's why I question the lawyer or whoever has been advising you. It's a much bigger issue than the noise but I have a feeling that it will all be OK and you'll find the IBI receipt in your name. It's going to look different depending how it was paid, anything from the size of a postcard to a full A4 sheet or maybe just an E communication. The one that you have for 2015 will have the catastro number and, like I told you before, it is sufficient for the people in the town hall to check if it is now in your name and if it's paid up to date.
costa-brava
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Post by costa-brava »

MESSAGE TO CASA
It would be better if we just contributed what we have experience of and not have a go at each other. We both try to help people but we can all make mistakes. You posted, "The collection of IBI is undertaken by the ayuntamiento (local town hall). If you own a property, you should pay IBI. When purchasing a house the payment and the change of details should have been done by your solicitor."
I have done this several times. It is a strange way they have of dealing with it. From memory the legal obligation is placed on the buyer to ensure that the seller notifies the town hall. In practice the seller or his representative goes to the town hall and does two documents. One is the change of ownership and the other is the declaration for "Plus Valia sobre terrenos". The notary usually checks with the seller that he/she is OK with this task. If not and especially if the seller is foreign he will ask the seller to deposit a retention and appoint a Gestor. I have never known a case where the buyer's solicitor has done it. In fact, in all my experience, there has never been a buyer's solicitor present at the signing of an escritura.
In addition to my own personal experience I have a large list of ex-students from my English classes including, estate agents, notaries, gestores, architects, town mayors, solicitors etc. Most of them took private classes and I became very familiar with the terms and procedures of property dealings and laws.
So, by all means correct me if I'm wrong but stop having a go at me. It's not helpful to the people trying to fix a problem.
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