Over Occupancy, the Damage Deposit and HomeAway...

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cleanforum
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Post by cleanforum »

For the sake of completeness in case anyone stumbles across this thread looking for an answer in the future;

The HA damage deposit is only claimable against items broken and replaced. This has to be proven with bills, nothing else.

In my case, of over-occupancy and/or extra guests we can make a sepertate claim using our "extra guest" fee as a basis (if you have one setup). They will then charge back the credit card for that, they say.

In my case, when I arrived to clean the pool this morning, the other family`s car was there and they admitted to having eight staying there (after some direct questioning) but that it had "only been one night and they did not know..."

....as I said I know they arrived last Firiday so that would be four nights, if indeed they do leave today.

My extra guest fee for four people for one night would not be worth the hassle.

So I will see how they leave things and claim against damages if needs be and
maybe the extra guests for one night thing..

Moral of the story, we are not really covered when using HA and a damage deposit, moreover it seems there is a very long list of things NOT covered by the damage deposit, not least of which would be the extra hours for repairs and cleaning, which I am not sure would be allowable by HA.
dixeady
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Post by dixeady »

In fact having eight at our villa that only has accommodation for six breaches all sorts of limits, insurance, beds etc. We also are required by law to register guests details and send the information to the Gardia Civil...[/quote]

I would use the Tourist Regulations in Spain and fact each guest has to be checked in and provide passport information, which is logged onto the GC site, as the stick with them. You could easily be fined a stiff penalty if a neighbour complains to the GC - for noise and overcrowding. It's quite simply against the law! I have it written into everything - names are taken beforehand of all guests on the booking contract - many times. Only the guests listed may stay. No Extra Guests. I was caught out last summer with young Spanish guys bringing back girls from the beach, drinking up on terrace, loud, disturbing angry neighbours. Phew! I hope never again.
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cleanforum
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Post by cleanforum »

Thats what we did, we registered all the guests with GC. I would be surprised if they did not leave today.
SPJ
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Post by SPJ »

Good luck!
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CSE
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Post by CSE »

dixeady wrote:In fact having eight at our villa that only has accommodation for six breaches all sorts of limits, insurance, beds etc. We also are required by law to register guests details and send the information to the Gardia Civil...

I would use the Tourist Regulations in Spain and fact each guest has to be checked in and provide passport information, which is logged onto the GC site, as the stick with them. You could easily be fined a stiff penalty if a neighbour complains to the GC - for noise and overcrowding. It's quite simply against the law! I have it written into everything - names are taken beforehand of all guests on the booking contract - many times. Only the guests listed may stay. No Extra Guests. I was caught out last summer with young Spanish guys bringing back girls from the beach, drinking up on terrace, loud, disturbing angry neighbours. Phew! I hope never again.
The law states that (limited) details of guest are to be collected upon arrival. Not before hand. I understand (from asking the G.C.) that is to ensure the correct details are given to the G.C. You never know if there is some sort of change in the group of guests.
Under 14s are not included in any returns.
If the GC are called to cleanforum's property they may more involved and take interest in things like all licences, maybe some historical ones like building permissions, CCTV, etc. Trouble is they are not consistent in their approach to issues they are called to investigate. Just hope that they never get involved.
Never try to out-stubborn your guests.
Renaud2
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Post by Renaud2 »

Presumably these guests booked and paid before the current changes to HA's damage deposit system. Therefore you should be able to deduct from the "damage deposit" that HA have kept. We have done this a few times, mainly for extra cleaning, and normally with prior agreement with the guests. HA have always paid us the amount we entered, without question. I would simply deduct the amount you think appropriate, state the reason in the relevant box (which I assume the guest sees), and wait for HA to repay you. The guests will probably not challenge it (providing you have been reasonable), on the basis of "it's a fair cop, guv", or "worth a try, but we didn't entirely get away with it".
Personally I would 'hit them hard', as our rental contract states that if they are found to be overoccupying then they will be evicted immediately. Makes them think twice! Good luck!
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cleanforum
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Post by cleanforum »

Thanks for that Renauld, Useful to hear your experience with HA deposit. I will see how the house is left. I really dont like getting into disputes with guests, so I may do as you say, contact them first.
How did you cost/ show costs for your cleaning time?
Renaud2
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Post by Renaud2 »

Where guests had asked for cleaning we try to give a guide price on the day they leave (based on 20 euros per hour), after having had a quick look around the property. Then we clean, and then decide on a final price. When you go to the refund part on HA you can enter the amount you are claiming, and there is a box for reason why. We enter "extra cleaning, as agreed".
If no cleaning has been asked for, and we find during the changeover that the cleaning has been definitely neglected, then we decide (if no mitigating circumstances) that we need to charge something, we simply state "extra cleaning". We have never had that questioned by guests. They normally know that they haven't done enough!
Regarding overoccupancy charges (especially as your guests have already admitted to it) I suggest that you add on a per person, per night charge, based on your weekly rental charge, and enter that as the amount you want returning to you by HA. Perhaps enter "charge for overoccupancy, confirmed by guests". You might find your guests don't book again with you, but you might not want them anyway. You've not really anything to lose. Plus you will feel that you have got some compensation for the situation you've been put in, rather than feeling 'abused'.
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cleanforum
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Post by cleanforum »

Many thanks Renaud2 !!
SW31
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Post by SW31 »

Are they French by any chance as they’re notorious for it. I always call it ‘intex season’ as they buy the inflatable beds to stay with others.

I thought I had it cracked when I added a 100€ per night per person clause into my T&C. Our Gite sleeps four, so there’s four chairs, four sunloungers 2 en-suite bedrooms etc. Our problem is the day beds in the mezzanine area - it’s a magnet for the French.

Yes, they read it as the T&C - the lot they invited turned up every morning with bread and croissants and left by midnight. When the booked guests arrived they were very surprised that we lived on sight but we soon found out why!
One brand new large wicker chair was damaged as it continued to be moved several times a day - no surprise we only found out after we had refunded the damage deposit.

As soon as France released the travel restrictions we closed the Gite as I couldn’t face any French antics this year. They are poor at social distancing and invite others too easily.
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cleanforum
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Post by cleanforum »

Yes, its quite a problem, I agree. There is a world of difference between a family unit and, two families or extra guests partying. The dynamics and wear and tear on the properties is not the same. And of course the feeling of being cheated does not help.

Sometimes this happens and the guests contact us first to tell us and ask permission. This usually speaks volumes for the guest's intregrity, and so the trust element at least is there. If its only for a night and does not exceed the villa capacity, we will try to work around it without extra charges.
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CSE
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Post by CSE »

I wrote earlier about the use of any CCTV. This case has been written about
Owner complains to guests about overcrowding, shows images and the police are involve. Does not end well.
https://www.lavozdegalicia.es/noticia/s ... 885668.htm
Never try to out-stubborn your guests.
zebedee
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Post by zebedee »

Yes CSE, (if google translate has not failed me) it would be impossible to defend having a CCTV camera facing the bathroom wouldn’t it? I would be pretty angry in those circumstances.

(In the UK, there laws about CCTV are strict as well, but many people don’t know them. )
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CSE
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Post by CSE »

zebedee, Please do not confuse the weak CCTV laws in the UK with those strong ones in Spain. I have previously stated that the laws here are super strick. It is a warning to those who choose to use CCTV in Spain. This conversation is about a property in Spain.
Never try to out-stubborn your guests.
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cleanforum
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Post by cleanforum »

CSE. I think CCTV is an important area for discussion. Could you perhaps open a thread and share your knowledge?
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