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Guest wants a refund
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Marks



Joined: 06 Nov 2006
Posts: 2889
Location: Costa Blanca

PostPosted: Sun Nov 15, 2020 11:31 am    Post subject: Guest wants a refund Reply with quote

I have a booking for 42 nights from 08.01.21. Guests have paid 25% deposit, balance is due by 27.11.20 but I have given them until 11.12.20 to pay given the UK lockdown should be eased 02.12.20

Their Easyjet flight from Manchester has been cancelled and they want to cancel and have a refund.

I have pointed out that Ryanair are still running a daily service from Manchester to Alicante. Guests say 'we have fallen out with Ryanair so we have no other options to fly' and are asking for a refund. I have refused on the basis that they can still travel. They are not happy.

Am I being 'unreasonable' (their words)?
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zebedee



Joined: 12 Sep 2014
Posts: 1195
Location: yorkshire dales

PostPosted: Sun Nov 15, 2020 1:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Not in my view, from the information you have given us.

They are not cancelling because of the pandemic, they are cancelling because they are not now inclined to travel. They could book flights via Ryanair.
If you or others in this situation issue a refund, then we may as well all tear up our TCs for the future.

Keep every thing in writing as they may do a charge back and you will need evidence to defend this. Get proof that Ryanair have flights as well, even seats available with dates you have sourced the information clearly on the evidence.

Good luck, but I donít think you have heard the last of this one.
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newtimber



Joined: 24 Nov 2012
Posts: 1815
Location: Brighton

PostPosted: Sun Nov 15, 2020 2:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

They still can fly out there, so they cannot cancel because they don't want to fly on Ryanair.

But what is the chance that they will be allowed to fly out to Spain in January or that the plane will be running then?

Depending on your viewpoint, you may decide that it is better to allow them to cancel now and hope to get a more reliable replacement booking than end up with a last-minute cancellation and a chargeback which you have to pay for.
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roxytoo



Joined: 03 Feb 2005
Posts: 1671
Location: Spain Costa Blanca

PostPosted: Sun Nov 15, 2020 8:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I would be doing the same as you Marks. Disinclination to travel.
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CSE



Joined: 06 Nov 2006
Posts: 4262
Location: Galicia

PostPosted: Mon Nov 16, 2020 8:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You cannot dictate who they travel with.
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Marks



Joined: 06 Nov 2006
Posts: 2889
Location: Costa Blanca

PostPosted: Mon Nov 16, 2020 8:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks for the replies. It is really difficult to have a fixed cancellation policy when there are so many variables.

zebedee wrote:
Keep every thing in writing as they may do a charge back and you will need evidence to defend this. Get proof that Ryanair have flights as well, even seats available with dates you have sourced the information clearly on the evidence.

Fortunately they have paid by bank transfer.

newtimber wrote:
But what is the chance that they will be allowed to fly out to Spain in January or that the plane will be running then?

I will offer a change of dates if there are no flights from Manchester or Liverpool (they live between the two). If they cannot travel from the UK due to government restrictions but Spain is still allowing international travel in and out then the apartment remains open for them. They would have to cancel and I would offer a refund if I can re-sell the dates.

CSE wrote:
You cannot dictate who they travel with.

I am not but flights are available, if they choose not to rebook then that is up to them. If they really want to come then they will make every effort.
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newtimber



Joined: 24 Nov 2012
Posts: 1815
Location: Brighton

PostPosted: Mon Nov 16, 2020 10:51 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Marks wrote:

newtimber wrote:
But what is the chance that they will be allowed to fly out to Spain in January or that the plane will be running then?

I will offer a change of dates if there are no flights from Manchester or Liverpool (they live between the two). If they cannot travel from the UK due to government restrictions but Spain is still allowing international travel in and out then the apartment remains open for them. They would have to cancel and I would offer a refund if I can re-sell the dates.


Couldn't you allow them to cancel now and offer to refund the 25% deposit less re-booking costs if you manage to re-book? That would seem fairer to me. Otherwise, you are saying to them they would have to pay 100% when the balance is due in December and risk losing everything if they cannot come and you can't re-book.
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CSE



Joined: 06 Nov 2006
Posts: 4262
Location: Galicia

PostPosted: Mon Nov 16, 2020 11:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You are dictating how to get to your property.
You wan them to fly with Crapair.
I would not even wish that on anyone I dislike.
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Marks



Joined: 06 Nov 2006
Posts: 2889
Location: Costa Blanca

PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2020 7:49 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

CSE wrote:
You are dictating how to get to your property.
You wan them to fly with Crapair.
I would not even wish that on anyone I dislike.

I am not dictating. Flights are available from Manchester and other airports and airlines. They could drive or take a coach or train. I would rather not fly Iberia however sometimes I don't have a choice. I have flown Ryanair dozens of times, never had a problem and rarely a delayed flight.

You do seem to like to pick a fight.
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zebedee



Joined: 12 Sep 2014
Posts: 1195
Location: yorkshire dales

PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2020 8:36 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Markís, the only thing to consider is, if the guests donít come because of a travel ban by the UK government (or overseas gov), they are entitled to a full refund. Depending on your TCs re cancellation, at the moment you may get to keep the deposit if you donít relet. That is better than nothing. I am tending to lean towards Newtimbers advice about letting them go and trying to relet if you could be allowed to hold onto the deposit if there are no replacement bookings.
I know this is a big booking for you, so probably worth quite a bit in the current time, but worth looking at it from other directions.
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Vera



Joined: 01 Aug 2007
Posts: 419
Location: Vera,Almeria, Spain

PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2020 8:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

We had repeat guests booked for 3 weeks in January, they paid the deposit when they left in Jan. 2020.
They are driving from Germany.
They contacted us recently and said make the dates available in case they can't travel and people from Spain or elsewhere can.
If they can't travel or the dates are not available they intend to stay in Jan 2022.
Perfect guests who understand the situation.

Good luck with yours Marks, I think you are being very fair and hope for a good solution.
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CSE



Joined: 06 Nov 2006
Posts: 4262
Location: Galicia

PostPosted: Tue Nov 17, 2020 9:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am not picking any fight.
You asked for advise. I respond you did not like it.

Running a business involve risk. With this Covid that risk has risen.
If that risk is too much do not open.
You have not lost any money. In fact you may save some by not having to have the heating, lights running all the time
If your beautiful part of Spain has to close like Sevilla or Burgos etc. What will you do? Give a refund?
What happens if they fail the new Covid Spanish tests?
I am frankly amazed that guests wish to travel.
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Sunbeam



Joined: 10 Aug 2015
Posts: 148
Location: Spain

PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2020 10:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

zebedee wrote:
Not in my view, from the information you have given us.

They are not cancelling because of the pandemic, they are cancelling because they are not now inclined to travel. They could book flights via Ryanair.
If you or others in this situation issue a refund, then we may as well all tear up our TCs for the future.

Keep every thing in writing as they may do a charge back and you will need evidence to defend this. Get proof that Ryanair have flights as well, even seats available with dates you have sourced the information clearly on the evidence.

Good luck, but I donít think you have heard the last of this one.


Agree with this - and if they booked before the covid situation - travel insurance should cover them.
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Marks



Joined: 06 Nov 2006
Posts: 2889
Location: Costa Blanca

PostPosted: Mon Nov 23, 2020 2:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

They booked on 4 June 2020 during a known pandemic and Spain had not fully emerged from lockdown. My view is they took a risk and want me to insure them.
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e-richard



Joined: 17 Oct 2004
Posts: 5007
Location: Algarve, Portugal

PostPosted: Mon Nov 23, 2020 5:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Marks wrote:
They booked on 4 June 2020 during a known pandemic and Spain had not fully emerged from lockdown. My view is they took a risk and want me to insure them.

Yes, we all know that you are right. We all agree with your arguments.

But in 2020 the world changed.
    Social norms got disorganised.
    Expectations were mismanaged by the media.
    Rules were relegated to the garbage bin.
    Insurance became even more muddied (it always was dirty)


And so, you know what the answer is.......
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