Hi everyone,
I received an inquiry this week from a woman wanting to book a week at our beach house for her family, including husband, son, daughter, son-in-law, 2 grandchildren age 6yrs and 8yrs. It's her husband's 60th birthday and she wants to invite a few extra family and close friends on the Sunday for a simple brunch, swim at the beach and leave at the end of the day.
I explained that we are not a party venue, and normally just say no, but we fully appreciated they wanted to enjoy the day with a few extra people. She could have gone ahead and just invited the extra people without even telling us, so I like her for the fact that she was upfront about it and they seem good people and sound very responsible.
She asked me to send a contract straight away and is very keen to book, but I have asked her first to confirm the numbers for me exactly so that I can add an addendum to the contract to give her permission for a specific number of people. She thought no more than 20, mostly adults, which added to the family of 6, makes 26, but will get back to me.
I thought this number would probably be OK, but now, I'm concerned about the grass getting torn up from all the extra cars, or the numbers expanding and 50 people turning up, or a rainy day meaning they are trampling mud through the house. We may have 2 acres and a private beach, but the house is not vast - 1600 sq ft.
What is your policy on extra day guests? Do you charge extra? Have you had any trouble? What limit would you recommend for the numbers?
Thanks in advance.
Regards
Joanna
www.southold-beach-house.com
Allowing other family and friends to visit during the day
Joanna,
I'm surprised that she told you about it. I wouldn't expect to be told about such a party in one of my houses. It's nice that she did. If I was worried about extra damage, wear and tear, or breakages, I would ask for an additional security deposit to cover it. I think this is justifiable because 26 people can do a lot more damage than 6.
I'm surprised that she told you about it. I wouldn't expect to be told about such a party in one of my houses. It's nice that she did. If I was worried about extra damage, wear and tear, or breakages, I would ask for an additional security deposit to cover it. I think this is justifiable because 26 people can do a lot more damage than 6.
Paolo
Lay My Hat
Lay My Hat
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Musicmonkey1
- Posts: 2
- Joined: Thu Dec 16, 2004 10:16 am
- Location: Manche
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Joanna,
When I read your first paragraph I thought, 'What's the big deal?' But when I saw the expected numbers in a later paragraph, I felt that this was too much to expect!
There are of course two sides to every story and it could be a very sedate affair. But on the other hand, my fear would be that it could be a rave in the making!
Glad it's not my decision that's all I can say.
When I read your first paragraph I thought, 'What's the big deal?' But when I saw the expected numbers in a later paragraph, I felt that this was too much to expect!
There are of course two sides to every story and it could be a very sedate affair. But on the other hand, my fear would be that it could be a rave in the making!
Glad it's not my decision that's all I can say.
I would at least double the deposit, personally... make sure she knows it's all refundable, but that it's really important to you that the house still be in great shape after the party. 20 people can easily do damage, not because any of them are wild or irresponsible, but just because there are so many of them.
We've never been asked anything like this for our house, but I agree that it's a good sign that she asked at all.
We've never been asked anything like this for our house, but I agree that it's a good sign that she asked at all.
Brooke
Difficult call Joanna - when you have renters you wantthem to have a good time and enjoy the property but by the same token a large 'party' is quite another thing. I agree with Brooke and Music monkey - thank her for her advising you of the party and ask for a larger refundable deposit. If they are reasonable they should understand and if they do not want to pay the additional surety - should that tell you something about them and what they might be worried about.
Good luck with the decsion and the client discussion
regards
helene
Good luck with the decsion and the client discussion
regards
helene
I would be perhaps tempted to take over the party and turn it into a money making venture with you in control...state is has to be a beach party and that they have to have someone directing parking..you choose the caterers so you get some commission, likewise organise beach tents/furniture etc. The booze, flowers the lot...I think you could have a bit of fun being a party organiser - and make some extra money!
I've done it a couple of times here when folk have come over for a special occasion....but I have to say not quite 50 of them!!.. a dozen!
Good luck
I've done it a couple of times here when folk have come over for a special occasion....but I have to say not quite 50 of them!!.. a dozen!
Good luck
Not so difficult when I have such great help! OK, the party is on! I have doubled the deposit to $1000, which she is happy to pay, also limiting the numbers to 30-35, because this gives her enough wiggle room to stick to it and she's happy with the number.helene wrote:Difficult call Joanna ....
Now I just need help with additional wording for the Lease, which covers normal noise disturbance and damages etc., but not things particular to a "Special Event".
My first draft is copied below, but just let me explain that although she has no intention of hiring a marquee tent, catering truck and the whole nine yards, I need to cover my back for insurance reasons. Apparently, any supplier like that must provide us with a certificate of insurance naming us as an additional insured on their policy, otherwise we are not covered for anything that happens as a result of that equipment being brought in, or to any of the staff setting up for them. I don't know whether this is particular to New York, or USA, but worth checking if you find yourself in a similar situation.
Well, we're not going to stand like a toll booth in the driveway all week checking for insurance certificates, so I'm just going to stick it into the contract, take her word that they are not going to do it and then go with the flow.
The car parking we can work out informally, and mark it out for them. There is no part that is not natural grasses (think wildlife preserve without the hard pathways). She's also going to bring all the extra household supplies, and pay for the extra trash removal, which could be as much as $100, depending on how many bags she creates and if it has to be removed immediately after the party rather than waiting for normal pick-up the following Tuesday.
What did I miss? (I know there's something)
Anyway, here's the first draft copy and thanks in advance for your feedback.
37. ADDITIONAL TERMS AND CONDITIONS. – Special Event
(i) Landlord grants permission for additional family and close friends to visit the property on Sunday July 31st as day visitors, the number of persons on the property not to exceed 35 in total including children.
(ii) It is understood and agreed by the Tenant that no
independent persons, contractors or businesses are permitted on the property at any time during the term of this Lease for the purposes of providing goods or services related to this event, whether paid or not, including but not limited to the hiring of tents, furniture, catering equipment, staff, musicians, or other form of entertainment, save on receipt of the Landlord’s express consent in writing in advance, which consent may be withheld at the Landlord’s
sole discretion.
(iii) Tenant is responsible for the Landlord's reasonable costs for the removal of event related trash to the Town dump as necessary, and for providing additional Southold Town yellow trash bags to the Tenant at cost, currently $2 each for the largest available size.
Joanna
Hi Tansy,tansy wrote:I would be perhaps tempted to take over the party and turn it into a money making venture with you in control...
I'm always in control...
Seriously, I am too far along in the negotiations with this person to suddenly start introducing a "Special Event" fee. And at the end of the day, I believe it is just a casual family BBQ and that's all, and only 35 people. This property could accomodate 100-150 no problem, if all outdoors under canvas.The issue is how many inside the house at one time, but in the unlikely event that the weather is really bad (July is usually fairly predictably good), then I guess the extra folks won't come, or won't stay long, or they will have a rain date arranged for later in the week.
Where your suggestion is spot on is for the Wedding we're now thinking of hosting in September, for a bride and groom who want to get married on the beach at sunset, with a string quartet playing, and the reception afterwards in a candlelit tent, with a live band playing till midnight, and dance floor.
We don't have any particular bride and groom in mind, but we have a friend with a similar setting, larger, and she does 6 weddings per year, and they are fully booked until 2006 and still being inundated.
She can help put us in touch with suppliers to contact for tents, flowers etc. and we can use this more modest BBQ self-catered affair first to iron out any lumps and bumps, that's what I'm now thinking anyway. I'm also very interested in views from anyone who has tried a much larger event, say 50+ or even 100+.
Thanks for the feedback, I really appreciate it.
Anybody planning to get married in September and looking for a beach?
Joanna
www,southold-beach-house.com
Joanna,
The wedding idea sounds lovely!
As a recent bride, though, I need to chime in for the other side. I called a lot of different places looking for reasonable prices to host a party, and as soon as I said it was a wedding, I swear that most places doubled their regular prices. Some threw in ridiculous commission fees that weren't there when I just said, "it's a catered party." There's a mentality out there that it's okay to charge above and beyond what's reasonable if it's for a wedding, because people expect to pay big for wedding stuff. People should expect to pay extra for a big, organized party, but no more for a wedding than they should for anything, e.g., an anniversary or a fancy birthday party or whatever.
I'm not saying that's something you'd do, though! I'm just pointing out that it exists in general, and if you start being a go-between as a wedding planner for your site, you'll run into it.
From the property owner's side, our property isn't big enough for that, so we don't have to worry about it. But if it was, I personally wouldn't get into the event planning part of it, or even offer that service to potential brides & grooms. Having just planned the aforementioned wedding, it's an unbelievable amount of work. Satisfying in the end, but it can take over your life!
The wedding idea sounds lovely!
As a recent bride, though, I need to chime in for the other side. I called a lot of different places looking for reasonable prices to host a party, and as soon as I said it was a wedding, I swear that most places doubled their regular prices. Some threw in ridiculous commission fees that weren't there when I just said, "it's a catered party." There's a mentality out there that it's okay to charge above and beyond what's reasonable if it's for a wedding, because people expect to pay big for wedding stuff. People should expect to pay extra for a big, organized party, but no more for a wedding than they should for anything, e.g., an anniversary or a fancy birthday party or whatever.
I'm not saying that's something you'd do, though! I'm just pointing out that it exists in general, and if you start being a go-between as a wedding planner for your site, you'll run into it.
From the property owner's side, our property isn't big enough for that, so we don't have to worry about it. But if it was, I personally wouldn't get into the event planning part of it, or even offer that service to potential brides & grooms. Having just planned the aforementioned wedding, it's an unbelievable amount of work. Satisfying in the end, but it can take over your life!
Brooke
Brooke,
Congratulations!
I'm not saying you were that way either, but a week before the last wedding hosted there, the bride requested a white horse to ride side saddle through the vineyards to meet her fiance at the altar on the beach. This put my friend into a spin - not only could she not find a horse of the right color, nobody would insure the bride to ride one of any color. A last minute scrabble for a horse-drawn carriage saved the day, but my friend had to drop everything for what amounted to a last minute whim on the part of the bride.
Another bride changed her mind on the menu so many times (according to the caterer), that the caterer phoned the day before the wedding and announced she would not be doing the wedding at all. This was simply a tantrum on the part of the caterer which was ignored, and of course everything turned up and the food was delicious, and the menu was exactly the same lobster she had ordered 3 months before, so who knows what happened there.
These kinds of examples maybe don't excuse a price hike, but do explain why the word "wedding" raises a flag for anyone on the hospitality side, at least that's the view from here.
It's not my intention to get involved in the planning, except I would offer a pre-approved list of vendors, so that the bride would be less likely to be subjected to a caterer's tantrum at the 11th hour or similar upset and would also know the limitations of what was possible from the outset. And no, it would not include any horse, with or without cart. Our property isn't that large either. I would only want to be involved so far as steering someone towards a selection of choices, since the bride and groom are rarely local to the area and picking from websites and brochures and a fleeting weekend visit.
Having watched my friend for a few years, and helped on the sidelines on many of those occasions, I've come to the conclusion that all weddings are beautiful and special and unique, and especially moving on the beach at sunset, and that any problems that arise along the way usually result from a bride who has a vision that is sometimes impossible for real human beings to fulfill in a setting that is as natural as ours, yet everyone around here wants to please and finds it's very difficult to say no. We all want the bride to have her perfect day.
Sorry, this is running on far too long, but I don't think it's quite the same for other kinds of celebrations, except perhaps for a Barmitzvah/ Batmitzvah, and generally, the main organizer there would be a parent with more life experience than the typical bride who sometimes doesn't quite fully appreciate that nothing in this life can ever be perfect except the state of mind you take to it.
Anyway, this is not something to which I have committed and first, I have to make sure my 60 year olds have their best family BBQ ever!
All the best,
Joanna
Congratulations!
I am inclined to agree with you and will give it more thought, but I guess at least one in three of the brides my friend has come across has proved extraordinarily demanding and that's fine, it's to be expected, but very time consuming.vrooje wrote:People should expect to pay extra for a big, organized party, but no more for a wedding than they should for anything, e.g., an anniversary or a fancy birthday party or whatever.
I'm not saying you were that way either, but a week before the last wedding hosted there, the bride requested a white horse to ride side saddle through the vineyards to meet her fiance at the altar on the beach. This put my friend into a spin - not only could she not find a horse of the right color, nobody would insure the bride to ride one of any color. A last minute scrabble for a horse-drawn carriage saved the day, but my friend had to drop everything for what amounted to a last minute whim on the part of the bride.
Another bride changed her mind on the menu so many times (according to the caterer), that the caterer phoned the day before the wedding and announced she would not be doing the wedding at all. This was simply a tantrum on the part of the caterer which was ignored, and of course everything turned up and the food was delicious, and the menu was exactly the same lobster she had ordered 3 months before, so who knows what happened there.
These kinds of examples maybe don't excuse a price hike, but do explain why the word "wedding" raises a flag for anyone on the hospitality side, at least that's the view from here.
It's not my intention to get involved in the planning, except I would offer a pre-approved list of vendors, so that the bride would be less likely to be subjected to a caterer's tantrum at the 11th hour or similar upset and would also know the limitations of what was possible from the outset. And no, it would not include any horse, with or without cart. Our property isn't that large either. I would only want to be involved so far as steering someone towards a selection of choices, since the bride and groom are rarely local to the area and picking from websites and brochures and a fleeting weekend visit.
Having watched my friend for a few years, and helped on the sidelines on many of those occasions, I've come to the conclusion that all weddings are beautiful and special and unique, and especially moving on the beach at sunset, and that any problems that arise along the way usually result from a bride who has a vision that is sometimes impossible for real human beings to fulfill in a setting that is as natural as ours, yet everyone around here wants to please and finds it's very difficult to say no. We all want the bride to have her perfect day.
Sorry, this is running on far too long, but I don't think it's quite the same for other kinds of celebrations, except perhaps for a Barmitzvah/ Batmitzvah, and generally, the main organizer there would be a parent with more life experience than the typical bride who sometimes doesn't quite fully appreciate that nothing in this life can ever be perfect except the state of mind you take to it.
Anyway, this is not something to which I have committed and first, I have to make sure my 60 year olds have their best family BBQ ever!
All the best,
Joanna
Joanna,
Yep, the Bridezilla stories can be really amazing! I suppose if I were planning someone else's wedding I would put in writing that all decisions must be made at least two weeks before the wedding.
You do have a very good point, brides can be very demanding. (That's why I would never take a job as a wedding planner.) Maybe you could put a clause in the contract stating that any extraneous demands on top of the usual linens, catering, chairs, florists, etc., (such as a white horse -- that's just crazy!) would be billed for your time at a reasonable hourly rate.
The folks at the Inn where I got married kept commenting that I was the most laid-back bride they'd ever seen. Really, though, I was just trusting them to put together the last-minute details, and they did it beautifully. I just can't imagine being one of those brides who freaks out over every little thing... but I could be in the minority there.
Yep, the Bridezilla stories can be really amazing! I suppose if I were planning someone else's wedding I would put in writing that all decisions must be made at least two weeks before the wedding.
You do have a very good point, brides can be very demanding. (That's why I would never take a job as a wedding planner.) Maybe you could put a clause in the contract stating that any extraneous demands on top of the usual linens, catering, chairs, florists, etc., (such as a white horse -- that's just crazy!) would be billed for your time at a reasonable hourly rate.
The folks at the Inn where I got married kept commenting that I was the most laid-back bride they'd ever seen. Really, though, I was just trusting them to put together the last-minute details, and they did it beautifully. I just can't imagine being one of those brides who freaks out over every little thing... but I could be in the minority there.
Brooke
Just to follow up on this, we went ahead with the family BBQ and this is the language we used in the Lease:-
37. ADDITIONAL TERMS AND CONDITIONS. – Special Event Sunday July 31st
(i) Landlord grants permission for additional day guests on Sunday July 31st, the number of persons on the property not to exceed 35 in total including the 6-8 persons occupying the house and any children.
(ii) For reasons of insurance liability, Landlord expressly prohibits independent contractors and businesses on the property at any time for the purposes of providing event services and supplies, whether paid or not, including but not limited to tent hire, tables, chairs, catering equipment, entertainers and the like.
(iii) Extra trash generated by the event that does not fit into garbage cans is to be stacked in the Utility Room in official Southold Town Yellow Bags and removed to the Town Dump no later than the following day. Extra trash bags will be charged to the Tenant at cost, currently $2.25 each. Landlord's charge to take trash to the dump, if required, is $20.
Also, we have an informal agreement with them that we will mark out the area for parking extra cars nearer the date when they know how many there will be.
Fingers crossed, all will be well.
Regards,
Joanna
www.southold-beach-house.com
37. ADDITIONAL TERMS AND CONDITIONS. – Special Event Sunday July 31st
(i) Landlord grants permission for additional day guests on Sunday July 31st, the number of persons on the property not to exceed 35 in total including the 6-8 persons occupying the house and any children.
(ii) For reasons of insurance liability, Landlord expressly prohibits independent contractors and businesses on the property at any time for the purposes of providing event services and supplies, whether paid or not, including but not limited to tent hire, tables, chairs, catering equipment, entertainers and the like.
(iii) Extra trash generated by the event that does not fit into garbage cans is to be stacked in the Utility Room in official Southold Town Yellow Bags and removed to the Town Dump no later than the following day. Extra trash bags will be charged to the Tenant at cost, currently $2.25 each. Landlord's charge to take trash to the dump, if required, is $20.
Also, we have an informal agreement with them that we will mark out the area for parking extra cars nearer the date when they know how many there will be.
Fingers crossed, all will be well.
Regards,
Joanna
www.southold-beach-house.com
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Christine Kenyon
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