Pain in Spain - a recent BBC article
Pain in Spain - a recent BBC article
Last edited by reddevil on Fri Feb 02, 2007 1:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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What would you attempt to do if you knew you would not fail?
What would you attempt to do if you knew you would not fail?
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cromercrabholiday
- Posts: 797
- Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 10:24 am
- Location: North Norfolk
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It is isn't it Ros? I can't think of anything worse than your dream dissolving into this nightmare. 
Unfortunately some people when buying property abroad think using the big companies is the safe way to go (as you would) but they of course persuade them to use their lawyers, recieve poor advice and so they never find out thinks like the land classification.
I really hate it were people are taken advantage of, it really makes me very upset
We've lived in Spain for 10 yrs and speak the language & we were amazed how much clap-trap we were told by estate agents re; the property. You can find out the classification of land quite easily from the local town hall. Here Urban land is the only one where you can comfortable extend the house, build pools or actually build a house on a reasonable sized plot. In the 'campo' you need 16,000sq mtrs of land to build a 250 sq mtr house.
Plus the 1st sign that something is wrong on a new developemnet is if you can not get water & elec. connection. All new builds are allowed these service for 'obras' or the building works. But you can only get them properly connected once all the correct certifications have been presented to the authorities.
I once, sadly, had to advice a man I chatted to at Alicante airport that this is why (probably) 2 yrs on he was still trying to run his house on 'obras'. He had used the developers lawyer...you can guess the rest
Buying houses abroad can be a nightmare, and I'm sure we all have a story to tell no matter how clued up we are.
These developers should be hung, drawn & quartered IMO
They are evil personified
Mouse (who thinks hard-working, decent people don't deserve this at all)
x
Unfortunately some people when buying property abroad think using the big companies is the safe way to go (as you would) but they of course persuade them to use their lawyers, recieve poor advice and so they never find out thinks like the land classification.
I really hate it were people are taken advantage of, it really makes me very upset
We've lived in Spain for 10 yrs and speak the language & we were amazed how much clap-trap we were told by estate agents re; the property. You can find out the classification of land quite easily from the local town hall. Here Urban land is the only one where you can comfortable extend the house, build pools or actually build a house on a reasonable sized plot. In the 'campo' you need 16,000sq mtrs of land to build a 250 sq mtr house.
Plus the 1st sign that something is wrong on a new developemnet is if you can not get water & elec. connection. All new builds are allowed these service for 'obras' or the building works. But you can only get them properly connected once all the correct certifications have been presented to the authorities.
I once, sadly, had to advice a man I chatted to at Alicante airport that this is why (probably) 2 yrs on he was still trying to run his house on 'obras'. He had used the developers lawyer...you can guess the rest
Buying houses abroad can be a nightmare, and I'm sure we all have a story to tell no matter how clued up we are.
These developers should be hung, drawn & quartered IMO
They are evil personifiedMouse (who thinks hard-working, decent people don't deserve this at all)
x
Last edited by Mouse on Fri Feb 02, 2007 3:58 pm, edited 1 time in total.
One martini, two martini, three martini floor!
Hi Mouse 
,
Totally agree but I also dont know how clued up any Lawyer is as new laws are passed all the time,
and what about the Land Grab fiasco....
Not only have they took peoples land they then charge them to put a road through so a New Estate can be built on it ........
Also theyre Laws are more fluid than ours and seem to change to help whoever has the most influence or money or both.
I lost track of the amount of time I was asked to sign something totally in Spanish and was looked at oddly when I refused[until it was translated into english and I signed the English copy only ]
While we are on the subject...
My Solicitor used to take my Taxes out every April[as well as his fees] by direct debit
After a couple of debates about other issues I asked when the taxes have to be paid by and was told.....[Nov/Dec]...
So I cancelled the DD and now take the chq every October...so they take your money for 6 mths.....and sit on it
BTW
If a DD is taken from your bank and you want it back, as long as you tell the bank within a month, they will credit it back to you straightaway...and then get it from the people it was paid to[even if you have a DD mandate in place]
Might be useful ,it has been for me
,Totally agree but I also dont know how clued up any Lawyer is as new laws are passed all the time,
and what about the Land Grab fiasco....
Not only have they took peoples land they then charge them to put a road through so a New Estate can be built on it
........Also theyre Laws are more fluid than ours and seem to change to help whoever has the most influence or money or both.
I lost track of the amount of time I was asked to sign something totally in Spanish and was looked at oddly when I refused[until it was translated into english and I signed the English copy only
]While we are on the subject...
My Solicitor used to take my Taxes out every April[as well as his fees] by direct debit
After a couple of debates about other issues I asked when the taxes have to be paid by and was told.....[Nov/Dec]...
So I cancelled the DD and now take the chq every October...so they take your money for 6 mths.....and sit on it
BTW
If a DD is taken from your bank and you want it back, as long as you tell the bank within a month, they will credit it back to you straightaway...and then get it from the people it was paid to[even if you have a DD mandate in place]
Might be useful ,it has been for me
I also blame the Spanish government because if the builder and/or the lawyers have not correctly informed the buyer of any discrepancy then surely the buyer should be entitled to reclaim all the money they have spent?
OK, they may not have a house in Spain but they will not be in a worse financial position than when they started?
I have never heard anybody trying to do this, so presume it is not in Spanish law? Do the builder and solicitor just run away laughing???
OK, they may not have a house in Spain but they will not be in a worse financial position than when they started?
I have never heard anybody trying to do this, so presume it is not in Spanish law? Do the builder and solicitor just run away laughing???
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What would you attempt to do if you knew you would not fail?
What would you attempt to do if you knew you would not fail?
That's so true...the developers always seem to be the ones that get away. The law is atrocious in Spain, probably because as Ros says the officials make so much money from them.
There is a big story happening in Marbella now where the officials & mayor have been thrown in Spain for basically taking back-handers, allowing building on protected land and allowing building without the necessary searches/infrastructure. I think its also happening in Catrall where they built 1,000's of villas without permission & in Andraitx on Majorca (same thing).
We are actually living in a small village which is being called the next 'marbella incident'. We know theres lots of back-handers and the island is being ruined because of it. The politicians are only interested in themselves, not the future of the country, nor the people that get hurt.
Then again I spoke with a local Ibicencan who was born in the village. I asked him his opinion on the recent scam (the town hall architect got caught on hidden camera accepting back-handers byt the architects college in Ibiza town), he also has personally passed every building project his daughter has done in the borough...surprise surprise they're all illegal & she's never had to work elsewhere he's been so generous.
My friends comment when asked about this? He said 'well it was unfair to film him without his knowledge, as we all have things we're not proud off'
I've often said that the word 'shame' doesn't exist in Spain.
Mouse
x
There is a big story happening in Marbella now where the officials & mayor have been thrown in Spain for basically taking back-handers, allowing building on protected land and allowing building without the necessary searches/infrastructure. I think its also happening in Catrall where they built 1,000's of villas without permission & in Andraitx on Majorca (same thing).
We are actually living in a small village which is being called the next 'marbella incident'. We know theres lots of back-handers and the island is being ruined because of it. The politicians are only interested in themselves, not the future of the country, nor the people that get hurt.
Then again I spoke with a local Ibicencan who was born in the village. I asked him his opinion on the recent scam (the town hall architect got caught on hidden camera accepting back-handers byt the architects college in Ibiza town), he also has personally passed every building project his daughter has done in the borough...surprise surprise they're all illegal & she's never had to work elsewhere he's been so generous.
My friends comment when asked about this? He said 'well it was unfair to film him without his knowledge, as we all have things we're not proud off'
I've often said that the word 'shame' doesn't exist in Spain.
Mouse
x
One martini, two martini, three martini floor!
Think you meant 'jail' MouseThere is a big story happening in Marbella now where the officials & mayor have been thrown in Spain for basically taking back-handers
Unfortunately this has happened twice to Marbella within 5 years...once to Snr.Gill and his townhall officials. He and his select few were sent to jail (Gill died of a heart attack in jail) for fraud. New mayor and officials duly elected to clear up the mess...but go straight back dealing with fraudulent back-handers....worse than the previous group!
Apparently one of the houses (worth millions) built on protected land belongs to Antonio Banderas whose got a team of lawyers trying to save his house. OK if you've got the money to do that
....but what devastation it is for someone who's given up everything to buy new in Spain only to find it has to be demolished leaving them with absolutely nothing!What a coincidence
My friend Hxxxx has just been round.
She had a house built in Marbella which was finished last year and is caught up in this she has lost thousands and is still paying over £500 mortgage for property that was illegally built.
It was with a large well known builder.
She had the choice of still going for ownership[illegally] or trying to sue the Mayor & the chief of Police etc
which she has decided to try to do but it could take years.
[she says the last 8 Mayors have gone or going to prison.]
Before anyone says maybe things werent right and she was naive didnt know what she was signing etc.
She is my financial adviser and has been friends with me since I was at the bank where she has a senior position...so if it can happen to her it can happen to anyone.
It was through her that I decided to buy in Spain[she has 2 other properties there] and she was so thrilled waiting for this Marbella one to be finished[it was going to be theirs to live in when she retired.]
What an absolute shame .
My friend Hxxxx has just been round.
She had a house built in Marbella which was finished last year and is caught up in this she has lost thousands and is still paying over £500 mortgage for property that was illegally built.
It was with a large well known builder.
She had the choice of still going for ownership[illegally] or trying to sue the Mayor & the chief of Police etc
which she has decided to try to do but it could take years.
[she says the last 8 Mayors have gone or going to prison.]
Before anyone says maybe things werent right and she was naive didnt know what she was signing etc.
She is my financial adviser and has been friends with me since I was at the bank where she has a senior position...so if it can happen to her it can happen to anyone.
It was through her that I decided to buy in Spain[she has 2 other properties there] and she was so thrilled waiting for this Marbella one to be finished[it was going to be theirs to live in when she retired.]
What an absolute shame
.
Hi
I've just watched this programme.
Sounds dreadful ?
Some problems were compulsory purchase. Happens everywhere.
But how did they find 1500 Brits to buy properties without planning permission in one development ?
And how can they have 50,000 villas built without planning permission over the last couple of years ?
Peter
I've just watched this programme.
Sounds dreadful ?
Some problems were compulsory purchase. Happens everywhere.
But how did they find 1500 Brits to buy properties without planning permission in one development ?
And how can they have 50,000 villas built without planning permission over the last couple of years ?
Peter
yes I did Crystal!Think you meant 'jail' Mouse
Could you tell I was getting a bit worked up Ros - that sounds an horrendous situation for your friend. Plus to sue anyone its going to be more money. The aurthorities need to come down on these people and show that this type of thing just can not be tolerated.
Corruption PeterAnd how can they have 50,000 villas built without planning permission over the last couple of years ?
Lots of marketing, hard sell, lies & getting them to use their lawyers.But how did they find 1500 Brits to buy properties without planning permission in one development ?
Mouse
x
One martini, two martini, three martini floor!
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Alan Knighting
- Posts: 4120
- Joined: Mon Oct 18, 2004 7:26 am
- Location: Monflanquin, Lot-et-Garonne, France
Ros,
Whilst I am not for one moment condoning the criminal behaviour of these development cowboys and their fraudulent counterparts in the local authorities I think there is another aspect to some of this.
Watching the “Home in the Sun� type of TV program it is very obvious that in the understandable euphoria of finding one’s idyllic retreat in the sun people abandon their normal caution. They take less care over their purchase than they do when buying a new TV set. They don’t ask any pertinent questions, they take the seller’s word for everything. They voluntarily walk into problems with their eyes open but seeing nothing.
I’m not being a clever clogs but as a lawyer by profession I always want to know “who farted and where did the smell go?� I’m sure you get my drift.
Many of my clients would go off to foreign parts, mainly Spain, on a house-hunting trip. Always, my advice to them was “Believe nothing while you're there; sign nothing while you're there and leave your Blankety-Blank cheque book and pen at home. Look at everything, listen to everything but do nothing; come back and in the cold light of day think about what you have seen and what you’ve been told�.
Final comment. I can’t imagine anything worse than having one’s retirement dreams dashed by some rip-off merchant, and I don’t care whose fault it is.
Fluffy
Whilst I am not for one moment condoning the criminal behaviour of these development cowboys and their fraudulent counterparts in the local authorities I think there is another aspect to some of this.
Watching the “Home in the Sun� type of TV program it is very obvious that in the understandable euphoria of finding one’s idyllic retreat in the sun people abandon their normal caution. They take less care over their purchase than they do when buying a new TV set. They don’t ask any pertinent questions, they take the seller’s word for everything. They voluntarily walk into problems with their eyes open but seeing nothing.
I’m not being a clever clogs but as a lawyer by profession I always want to know “who farted and where did the smell go?� I’m sure you get my drift.
Many of my clients would go off to foreign parts, mainly Spain, on a house-hunting trip. Always, my advice to them was “Believe nothing while you're there; sign nothing while you're there and leave your Blankety-Blank cheque book and pen at home. Look at everything, listen to everything but do nothing; come back and in the cold light of day think about what you have seen and what you’ve been told�.
Final comment. I can’t imagine anything worse than having one’s retirement dreams dashed by some rip-off merchant, and I don’t care whose fault it is.
Fluffy
Hi Fluff 
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I do agree with you to some extent....some people are naive but that doesnt mean that they are fair game for dishonest people to take advantage of...
But this lady most certainly is not as I said shes worked at the bank I was in for years and is now senior financial advisor.....Has previously bought abroad .
But If the Lawyer, Mayor and everybody else is in cahoots its very hard to see through it....
When you were working and checked things for people they believed what you told them...
Hindsight is a wonderful thing and hopefully this will help to open peoples eyes even further.
In this country if you were buying a house and the builder had planning permission to build it [which he had but it was illegally obtained]...we would expect our solicitors to make sure it was all legal...If they assured us it was ...we would go ahead.If not what would be the point of employing them.
In this country weve probably got a trusted solicitor that youve dealt with for years and so the trust has built.
But in a foreign country its not that easy....
.I do agree with you to some extent....some people are naive but that doesnt mean that they are fair game for dishonest people to take advantage of...
But this lady most certainly is not as I said shes worked at the bank I was in for years and is now senior financial advisor.....Has previously bought abroad .
But If the Lawyer, Mayor and everybody else is in cahoots its very hard to see through it....
When you were working and checked things for people they believed what you told them...
Hindsight is a wonderful thing and hopefully this will help to open peoples eyes even further.
In this country if you were buying a house and the builder had planning permission to build it [which he had but it was illegally obtained]...we would expect our solicitors to make sure it was all legal...If they assured us it was ...we would go ahead.If not what would be the point of employing them.
In this country weve probably got a trusted solicitor that youve dealt with for years and so the trust has built.
But in a foreign country its not that easy....
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Alan Knighting
- Posts: 4120
- Joined: Mon Oct 18, 2004 7:26 am
- Location: Monflanquin, Lot-et-Garonne, France
Ros,
Don’t get me wrong. All my sympathies are for those who have been ripped off. I’m totally blaming the cheats and the liars and I think they should be crucified for what they do.
Fluffy
Don’t get me wrong. All my sympathies are for those who have been ripped off. I’m totally blaming the cheats and the liars and I think they should be crucified for what they do.
That’s the whole point. In a foreign environment one must be more rather than less vigilant. It’s not hindsight that is required, it’s foresight.But in a foreign country its not that easy....
Fluffy