Holiday-Rentals.com spam?

[vrooje]

When I first set up my H-R advertisement earlier this year, I sent myself a test inquiry using a hotmail address.

I just got a piece of unsolicited e-mail from Holiday-Rentals to that address!

Here's the text of the message (links removed):

With over 11,000 great holiday homes to choose from, you’re sure to find something ideal - whether it’s for a romantic getaway, a family holiday, relaxing on a beach, or a city centre break.

Start browsing and build your shortlist on holiday-rentals.com

Or see our newsletter - holiday-rentals.com/newsletter for the latest news, holiday ideas and special offers.

Win a pass to the 2005 British Masters Golf Tournament on 12th to 15th May 2005

Click for details - holiday-rentals.com/masters But hurry, it closes on April 28th 2005.


This email was sent to xxxxxx @ hotmail.com


Privacy policy
This e-mail is sent exclusively to people who have made a booking enquiry for holiday accommodation on Holiday-Rentals.com. You can remove your e-mail address from our list at any time by clicking here
holiday-rentals.com/list

I just noticed now that at the very bottom of their inquiry page, they tell people they're going to be added to a mailing list and given a link to remove themselves. This is sort of non-standard -- the things I've seen and used before have a checkbox that you can tick to tell them it's okay to send you mail. I had to scroll to see this notice and it's in long-paragraph form.

I know this is probably legal -- I just think it's bad form! I don't want my clients associating anything to do with my rental property with unsolicited e-mail.

Thoughts?

[ross]

Brooke,

You are right, what holiday-rentals.com is doing is perfectly legal. The reason we do this is to benefit our advertisers by reminding the people who have made an enquiry to return to site. The emails are never sold or used to promote any other service other than sending updates and seasonal holiday messages. Anyone who doesn't wish to receive such emails can easily unsubscribe at http://www.holiday-rentals.com/list.

These emails are a great benefit to our advertisers because they generate lots of site visits, enquiries and more importantly bookings.

[vrooje]

Ross,

Thanks for such a quick response!

My point was simply that adding people to an e-mail list by default and making them go to a separate page to remove themselves is (I think) not very polite. Additionally, because your notice of this is well below the first screen on most (if not all) people's monitors, I would wager that the majority of people don't even know they've been added until they receive the first e-mail.

Nowadays what many (most?) honest sites do is place a checkbox before the submit button that says something like (for example) "keep me updated with special offers for this and other properties" -- very honest sites leave the box unchecked by default.

I just got the impression that it was a bit sneaky, legal or not. If I felt that way, I'm sure some potential clients do, too, and it might put them off.

I should point out that I'm very happy with H-R thus far and of course I do think you're an honest business. Perhaps it's just me that felt this way about this; but it has been my experience that I'm not usually all that unique.

Cheers!

[paolo]

There was discussion of what constitutes spam elsewhere and what h-r are doing doesn't seem to be on the wrong side of the tracks, but I agree that it's desirable that the check-box be extremely obvious, and that the default is set to ‘no emails’.

The sites I trust the most on the internet are like this. I noticed when emailing Tansy those test enquiries that vrbo has a ‘send me emails’ box ticked as default, but it is right there above the ‘send enquiry’ button so you can’t really miss it.

[alexia s.]

Apart from saying that we have advertised with holiday-rentals almost since they began & that they are the smartest, most courteous and honest team I have dealt with, I have to say that I don't care what they do (they are far too smart to do anything remotely illegal): they bring in bookings (for our properties) like nobody else.

Does anybody know a more user-friendly(i.e. rational) site?
Or a more international one?
Over the years, we have had bookings via holiday-rentals from England, Scotland, Northern Ireland, Republic of Ireland, Belgium, Holland, Finland, Norway, Estonia, Italy, France, Israel, US, Canada, South Africa, Hong Kong, Australia, New Zealand.

[John Borg]

I cannot but agree with Alexia's comments. Holiday-Rentals give you the results you want, so an advert every now and then is a small price to pay.
One comment for Ross: Recently, I have started to recieve "scam" mails in the form of queries via your site. I know that it's nearly impossible to be rid of these pests, though it's a shame that little can be done to block these time wasters!

[Alan Knighting]

Alexia,

I would add that Ross McGowan, the Sales Manager of Holiday Rentals, has always dealt with his messages in an extremely prompt manner. This is not my experience with some other web site managers.

On a purely personal note, I think some people are getting almost paranoid about Spam. So long as there is a mechanism for opting out it's OK by me. I regard Spam simply as an annoyance which I ignore. Hopefully I not sufficiently naive (stupid?) to fall for the fraudulent tricks of the professional spammers. Judging from the case of the spammer who was recently jailed in the USA there are many thousands who are.

Alan

[vrooje]

That's an interesting point, and a valid one -- since H-R does get results, they must be doing something right!

I was just posting with a gut reaction that I had, with my reasoning being that if I had that reaction (something like, hey, I had to put in my e-mail to inquire about a property and you put me on a mailing list! That's not nice!), potential clients might too, and might decide not to come back.

Though I must admit that it's possible this only bothered me because I notice details like how the opt-out choice is delivered. It's quite possible that most of our potential clients wouldn't notice the difference between a checkbox right above the submit button and an opt-out link at the bottom of the page. So maybe it's only the more technically-minded clients that my gut reaction was echoing.

Either way, I agree that if it were the case that changing this would result in a dramatic drop in H-R traffic, it's not worth it.

Cheers!

[tansy]

I do get the mail from h-r.com as they have a different email address for me...every time I get one of their newsletters as if I was an enquirer, lo and behold I get bookings.....it is only every quarter or so that they send a newsletter - but my bookings always increase....so keep sending them....it is a very very professional mail - there is no mistaking it is from h-r.com so personally I think it is a wonderful sales tool!!

Hurrah for h-r.com otherwise I'd be broke - because as sure as god made little green apples no other firm has come up with anything like the traffic!!

Oh sorry have I started another Ernest and handbag thread now

[paolo]

I only have good things to say about holiday-rentals.com too, but the point Brooke was making was about the other side of the fence - whether potential renters might be put off using h-r because they were not expecting to get emails from them.

From what Tansy says, perhaps the opposite is true - the newsletter gives people just the nudge they need to return to h-r and look at properties.