6 month + 6 month = 1 year?

[vrooje]

We've just had an inquiry from an artist who wants to rent our house for a year. He's from California and sent a website address and appears to be legitimate. Well, more than legitimate: very successful. I don't have any feeling whatsoever that this is a scam.

I initially told him that we couldn't rent for more than 6 months, because of French rental laws.

He called my mother and was very interested and willing to book a year in advance so that we wouldn't have to cancel current rentals. We haven't discussed price yet, but his paintings are very expensive so I think he'd be willing to pay a reasonable price.

It then occurred to my Dad that we might be able to rent to him for a year by having two rental contracts, each just less than 6 months long, with a short break in between, during which he and his family could stay elsewhere for a couple of days or for a week.

I wasn't sure about this. It seems legitimate, but is it really? Or is it too much of a risk?

I thought I'd post here to get people's opinions.

[roxytoo]

I don't think you need to get him to stay somewhere else, I vaguley remember reading about a 'rolling' 6 month contract that people use in the Uk for this exact purpose, think it safeguards you although maybe not the tennant so much in that at the end of the 6 months you can vacate him if you wish. If not it just 'rolls' on. Whether this exists in France and whether he would like the idea is another matter! I could be wrong so don't take my word for it but just a gut reply really to your posting! Would be nice to get a year paid up front!

[vrooje]

I have a related question to this, so I thought I'd just post it here.

What would you charge for something like this?

We were thinking that we'd ask him to make up for the income we'd make renting the property weekly, plus 20%. Too much? Too little?

[tansy]

Brooke that's a hard one...but thinking about it do you get many off season bookings?

I would be inclined to work out what you normally make over the whole year and charge him that divided by 52 (weeks) and make it look as if you are doing him a huge great big favour

That way you don't loose out and he feels well looked after...so should be a win win situation.

I presume he will be paying all the services seperate, electricity,water etc.

If he is not happy don't forget to mention habitation tax as well - keep it up your sleeve in case of further negotiations.

[alexia s.]

Brooke,
What do you mean by "make up for the income we'd make renting the property weekly"?
Sorry if the answer is obvious.

[roxytoo]

A years let is a difficult one to work out, have only ever done 6 months over the winter which is much easier! Having said that I wouldn't charge what I 'might' make in a year, it would be less because I probably wouldn't have the advertising fees plus all those cleans plus the time and effort that goes into chasing and following up rentals!! Think, you will have a year off!! Some people that rent out may like this, some don't! Only my opinion of course!

[vrooje]

Alexia,

Sorry if that wasn't obvious. I was thinking that we made €18000 in rental income last year and will do so again this year (barring any cancellations). So that's probably about what we'd make next year. I was thinking of asking for €18000 x 1.2 = €21600.

Of course, meishka is right -- the number above is our gross income, and we wouldn't have nearly as many costs.

So then I took our weekly rate and subtracted off our cleaning fees, divided it in half (our long-term discount), multiplied by 50 (assuming 2 weeks between contracts), and got €21750 -- basically the same number!

Of course, we wouldn't really mind just reclaiming our costs without the 20% on top of it... but I figure this is going to be a negotiation, so I should start a little higher than I plan to end up.

Tansy, thank you for the tip about the taxe d'habitation! I'll definitely keep that up my sleeve. We do plan to keep utilities separate, of course -- and if he asks we may offer to include a small amount of electricity per month or something. The easiest thing to do would be to switch EDF into his name for the year, but I'm not sure what the legalities of that are. We're looking into it with the law/tax firm that did our taxes this year.

[tansy]

Meishka, sorry - what I meant is that over the whole year bearing in mind cleaning and all the rest of it ...I take for arguements sake 10,000 Euros divide by 52... he is there for a year you want to take a minimum of 10,000....so you present it to him as 200 Euros per week + services that he pays...or 800 Euros rental per month...whatever way you want to word it.

But you do also have to take into account how much you are looking for as a return...I personally work on a minimum of 8% of the value of the property, (I'd be very interested to hear what % other folk work to)...Up to you what way you want to look at it...

I personally would keep marketing whilst he was there...also you look very popular on the availability chart....you know the story - you want what you can't have - so should turn into a positive...lots of folk wanting to pre book hopefully!

[alexia s.]

Strictly speaking (even loosely speaking), the taxe d'habitation isn't negotiable: French law requires that it be paid by the person residing at the property on 1st January of the year in question. If you pay it for them, Brooke, you are giving them a present - up to you!

[vrooje]

Alexia,

Thank you for reminding me of that! Then we'll definitely mention it if they have any qualms whatsoever about the price.

Cheers!

[paolo]

I'd do what Tansy says, work out what you expect to make in a good year, and make that the total rent. They would have to pay utilities, etc. on top of that - all the things you usually pay, so you are making more than you would in weekly lets. I don't think I would add the 20%, because they will probably get better offers from other properties.

[Alan Knighting]

Brooke,

I thought I should attempt to answer your question about your potential one years’ letting. I am an ex-lawyer but not in France and my knowledge of French law may not be up-to-date.

Property law in France is not necessarily the same as it is in any other country. Your property is in France and therefore French law applies to any letting of it and any letting agreements must be written in French.

Putting aside short term lettings, e.g. holiday lets for a week or two, there are two forms of letting in France, the assured tenancy and the assured shorthold tenancy. The former is for a minimum period of three years so you are looking at the latter.

The assured shorthold tenancy is an assured tenancy which is granted for a fixed period of at least six months and in respect of which the landlord (you) must serve a notice on the tenant (your artist) stating that the tenancy is an assured shorthold one. The notice must be in a specific form and the procedure must be followed precisely. You can not evict the tenant but, so long as you give the tenant at least two months notice the court must do provided the agreed term has expired.

Also, before the letting starts you should prepare a notice of condition which must be signed by you and the tenant.

So that you can be quite certain that appropriate agreement is entered into and that the tenant has no automatic rights of renewal it is essential that you consult a French notaire who will advise you and draw up the necessary letting agreement. To protect yourself don’t do it yourself.

Alan

[vrooje]

Alan,

Thank you for that information! Not to worry, we are definitely consulting with a French law firm on this one. I'm not sure how my parents will feel about not being able to evict the tenant, but if the most they could lose is 2 months, that might not be so bad.

I'll keep everyone updated as this progresses.

[Alan Knighting]

Brooke,

I am extremely relieved to hear that you have decided to consult a French lawyer on this one. If you took the advice of any unqualified person, including me, and something went wrong you would only have yourself to blame.

Alan

[vrooje]

Alan,

you're quite right! Don't worry, you're off the hook. And I really appreciate that we now have some idea of what to expect from the lawyers. It's nice to feel informed, even though the lawyers could tell us something completely different later.

Cheers!