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How to build your own personal website from scratch
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Garri



Joined: 11 Jul 2005
Posts: 1717

PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2005 12:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I still have problems with this as I do honestly believe that people will consider the ads to be 'internal' links, in which case Tansy could lose 'genuine' customers.


But, it's OK for her to lose 'genuine' customers to competitors' ads? Am I right in thinking that she could, through the Adsense screen, select a basket of her favourite advertisers that are relevant to her site?

Also Tony, could you please explain about the decision to display ads as being a way to regularly update search engines? I'm intrigued by this.

There's some neat tools for generating an Amazon book page, so shouldn't be too difficult.

Sticky - thanks for the words of encouragement and please don't leave the forum. I thought your initial contribution was valueable and lead to changes being implemented in Tansy's site. That's a good thing. Her site is even better now and with the more blended in ads - looks the dogs' doodahs!

Enid - Yes, I wear socks. They are very fluffy socks - Alan gave them to me. My new sandals have helped cool me down and I'm now able to tread more carefully Wink
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enid



Joined: 27 Dec 2004
Posts: 5614
Location: Labretonie France

PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2005 12:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
Enid - Yes, I wear socks. They are very fluffy socks - Alan gave them to me. My new sandals have helped cool me down and I'm now able to tread more carefully


Great reply! Laughing
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Alan Knighting



Joined: 18 Oct 2004
Posts: 4170
Location: Monflanquin, Lot-et-Garonne, France

PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2005 12:48 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Renaud,

In order to make a point most clearly I suppose one must go to extremes and your example certainly does that, in spades.

The thing is that not even the most illiterate of English speakers would come up with an original anything like that. Nor would even the worst translation software produce such nonsense.

The job of a spelling checker is to highlight and/or auto-correct the occasional spelling mistake while one is composing text and I think they do a very good job.

Regards

Alan
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Alan Knighting



Joined: 18 Oct 2004
Posts: 4170
Location: Monflanquin, Lot-et-Garonne, France

PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2005 12:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
They are very fluffy socks - Alan gave them to me.

I should make it quite clear that I gave Garri his new socks metaphorically speaking. I tried to send them by e-mail but the fluff wouldn't go down the wire. Even ADSL has it's limitations - it may be broadband but the band is not that broad.

Sticky. Will you forgive me for this sort of (mis)use of the English language?

Alan
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paolo



Joined: 17 Jun 2004
Posts: 3931
Location: Provence, France

PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2005 1:23 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tansy,

Sorry, there is no spell-checker available with the software we use for the forum. I have always understood what you are saying though, so I wouldn't worry about it.
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livinginitaly



Joined: 29 Oct 2004
Posts: 266
Location: Italy (at last!)

PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2005 1:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Garri wrote:
Quote:
But, it's OK for her to lose 'genuine' customers to competitors' ads? Am I right in thinking that she could, through the Adsense screen, select a basket of her favourite advertisers that are relevant to her site?


I think we think of things in different ways .... you seem to think that 'users' will look for the first opportunity to leave a site, without reading the rest of the content. To a point, this may be true, put personally I believe they will only leave when they 'lose interest'. Therefore, having Ads displayed gives them the opportunity to continue searching for something more relevant without going back to the search engine. Whereas, as i've said, 'blending in' the Ads could possible 'fool' interested 'users' into thinking that they were following an 'internal link' .... this would mean both the 'user' and the website owner 'miss out'.

Garri also wrote:
Quote:
Also Tony, could you please explain about the decision to display ads as being a way to regularly update search engines? I'm intrigued by this.


I never said the decision was based on this, it really was more of an afterthought. The reasoning is that extra 'keyword rich' content is served via the ads. Who knows which search engines are capable of 'filtering out' ad content ..... possibly google may do, but if i'm really honest I don't know for sure, do you?

I can say that many times whilst searching for 'whatever' i've folllowed a link to a site that appears unrelated to that which I was searching for. The sites have appeared to be pretty 'static' and a search via 'google cache' and the 'waybackmachine' has confirmed this. The only thing that the site have in common is Adsense. I would expect sites like this to 'disappear' into the depths, not to feature on the front page of google.

Everyone who even attempts to work out SEO is 'guessing' what happens, I put my hand up and say "I do what I know works, but I'm also not against trying a few new ideas either".
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Garri



Joined: 11 Jul 2005
Posts: 1717

PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2005 1:49 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Cheers for the feedback Tony,

Quote:
having Ads displayed gives them the opportunity to continue searching for something more relevant without going back to the search engine.


I think putting a Google search bar on the site would be more appropriate in that case. Useful too since users can use it to search Tansy's site or Google, any subsequent clicks on ads by users would then all go in your kitty.

Quote:
I never said the decision was based on this, it really was more of an afterthought. The reasoning is that extra 'keyword rich' content is served via the ads.


My argument is that ads are not content, and shouldn't be considered as such.

Quote:
Who knows which search engines are capable of 'filtering out' ad content ..... possibly google may do, but if i'm really honest I don't know for sure, do you?


No, that was why I was intrigued by your reasoning as Adsense is something I'm currently researching and I found it alarming.

I did find this however:
http://www.google.co.uk/webmasters/facts.html

So, I guess it neither helps nor harms your rankings.

I am starting to consider the services of SEOs to be practicising in the dark arts.
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livinginitaly



Joined: 29 Oct 2004
Posts: 266
Location: Italy (at last!)

PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2005 2:05 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Garri
"putting a Google search bar on the site would be more appropriate" .... not easy to make that 'blend in' though is it?

"My argument is that ads are not content, and shouldn't be considered as such." ....

From webmasterarticles.net
Quote:
I've already mentioned the fact that there is money to be made, but what many site owners are finding is that because Google is so respected and because the ads are highly targeted...they are no longer looked at by surfers as ads, they are looked at as content.

Some will even go as far as to say that by putting the Google ads on your site you actually better your chances of higher rankings with Google. Google flatly denies this claim and I don't think it is true but I do know that Google AdSense ads should be on every small business owner's site. (Google AdSense)


"I am starting to consider the services of SEOs to be practicising in the dark arts." ...... and that's exactly what they would like you to believe. Personally I think of them as 'fairground magic acts', some of it looks good, but there's nothing done that you can't learn for yourself Smile
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Garri



Joined: 11 Jul 2005
Posts: 1717

PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2005 2:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tony...

Quote:
they are no longer looked at by surfers as ads, they are looked at as content.


Now I can see how you are making that assumption and why in your earlier post you asserted that users don't realise that when they click on a Google ad the site owner gets revenue.

The article you've cut & paste from makes it even more compelling to make the ads blend in to the real content as much as possible, eh?

Personally, I always click on Google ads when I visit weblogs and find useful articles - it's my way of tipping them and thanking them for their effort.

By the same token, I never click on Google ads when I visit rental listings sites or other commercial sites.

I don't believe that displaying Google ads helps your rankings - it shouldn't. Although who's to say that Google doesn't have some sneaky little algorithm that puts those displaying their ads nearer the top.
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Alan Knighting



Joined: 18 Oct 2004
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2005 2:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The absence of a spelling checker on the Forum is no problem whatever. Compose your message in e.g. Word, spell check it there, when happy cut and paste into your posting. What could be simpler?

Alan
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livinginitaly



Joined: 29 Oct 2004
Posts: 266
Location: Italy (at last!)

PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2005 2:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Garri wrote:
Quote:
The article you've cut & paste from makes it even more compelling to make the ads blend in to the real content as much as possible, eh?

Well that's why, to a point, I went along with what you recommended. However, it's a fine line between 'offering an alternative' and 'encouraging them out of the door'.

One thing though, from the outset this project was aimed at helping people realise that developing a website need not be a major problem (though admittedly we've gone passed the 'basic site' I had in mind!). Additionally, a number of people didn't really place a great deal of importance on having their own site and were quite happy using many of the 'Pay Per Listing' services.

I'm so glad that now we seem to be debating the 'fine tuning' of a site and that, it appears, everyone is 'on board' with having a site in the first place Smile
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livinginitaly



Joined: 29 Oct 2004
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Location: Italy (at last!)

PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2005 3:39 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

At risk of taking the whole 'ads debate' further ... how about this?

http://www.normandybeachrental.com/recommended_reading.php

Also, should it be linked to from the menu or from link text in the content somewhere?
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Tony
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Garri



Joined: 11 Jul 2005
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2005 3:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I like it Tony! Shame you can't get much control over the look and feel of the Amazon placeholder etc.

A link somewhere in the content would be the easier of the two options I guess.

I'm impressed by how quickly you got your associate account set up, or was it one you did earlier?
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livinginitaly



Joined: 29 Oct 2004
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PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2005 4:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
I'm impressed by how quickly you got your associate account set up, or was it one you did earlier?

No, no slight of hand Wink it's all done online in a few minutes. In fact I opened up an account with amazon.com first by mistake, but that was a $dollar account and the banners / graphics are even worse than the UK version!

I do have an account though, it pays a little, but this account is in Tansy's name.

One point, even though the links are 'live' and commisions will be made .... the account application is still 'under review' and could be denied. Not that I think that this will happen.

One more point, if you see a 'strip' of white at the top and bottom of the Amazon 'box', this is down to the Amazon <iframe> and cannot be amended by me ..... very annoying!
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paolo



Joined: 17 Jun 2004
Posts: 3931
Location: Provence, France

PostPosted: Tue Aug 16, 2005 10:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

livinginitaly wrote:
I'm so glad that now we seem to be debating the 'fine tuning' of a site and that, it appears, everyone is 'on board' with having a site in the first place Smile


I'm glad too, and it is pretty much all down to you, so thanks for all the work you have put into this.

I have also toyed with the idea of a recommended reading page, with Amazon links. Idleness has got the better of me on this, but also, what is the return if they go on to buy the book?
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