Different standards?

From the moment they step through the door your bookings become guests, and their experiences determine whether they ever come back.
la vache!
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Different standards?

Post by la vache! »

We had a visit from some people who stayed with us last year, who we got quite friendly with. They tried to book here again this year, but left it until late (we were fully booked) and eventually found somewhere else with a pool in the area. However, they said it was the worst place they had stayed in in France - some of their comments:
1) When they got there, the key to the door was supposed to be under a stone. It wasn't. They contacted the caretaker who couldn't find the key either. As the place consited of 3 gites, and wasn't fully occupied, the caretaker put them in another.
2) The place wasn't big enough, so they decided to look for the key for the original accomodation. On breaking into the post box, they found it.
3) The place was filthy. The caretaker said she would be keeping all the £100 deposit from the previous occupants because of this and then proceeded to sweep the floor for all of 15 mins. Needless to say they had to bring all their own bed linen and towels.
4) The swimming pool was very small and indoor a shed, the door had to be kept shut at all times, so it was hot and uncomfortable for anyone supervising a child.
5) The pool had so much chlorine in it that the swimming shorts of the child in the party started off dark blue and are now a pink/orange colour.
6) The outside furniture was a faded green, very old and there were only 2 chairs for a house supposed to sleep 6.
7) Last Saturday, when other guests arrived, the caretaker showed them into another of the cottages, as the key was missing again. They moved in and made up their beds. At 11pm, another family arrived for the same cottage. The UK owner was called, who managed to get hold of the caretaker. She eventually arrived and found the key to cottage for the first guests. They then had to move themselves to the new cottage and re-make all the beds. The caretaker was unaware of the 11pm arrivals, they had only booked a couple of weeks before and the UK owner had not informed her.
8) The facilities included a washing machine and dishwasher, but in fact these were communal for all the houses (ever tried transporting a load of crockery to a dishwasher 20 yards away??)
9) The fact there was UK satellite TV was no compensation, in fact its on the bottom of the list when it comes to basic rental comfort
10) The grafitti on the the bunk beds was quite obscene
11) The price of the accomodation was similar to one of my cottages sleeping 8 (it sleeps 6 and there is no comparison in comfort and facilities)
Luckily our friends are seasoned gite renters and love France, they just think it is quite funny. But would rather be staying with us again! However, if this was your first hoilday in a rented cottage, you would think twice before doing it again wouldn't you?
Is there no way of setting up some accreditation for rental accomodation without having to charge a fortune (e.g. country cottages) or earn a pittance (e.g. gites de france)??
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enid
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Post by enid »

We should start our own!!
alexia s.
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Post by alexia s. »

This sounds like misrepresentation (an omission to describe shared facilities as such), low standards (pool, insufficient furniture) and a MAJOR housekeeper problem. I wouldn't want to rely on someone whose idea of preparing a property for rental is zero until they complain and then 15 min sweeping. Before blaming the owner for all of this I would want to know if the housekeeper was responsable for the keys - and if not, why not? Is s/he so irresponsable? Is it impossible to get staff locally?
(I guess the housekeeper is responsable for the chlorine.)
A housekeeper who doesn't check a property between lettings, isn't responsable for getting the property into proper condition and doesn't check-in the next visitors with the key ..... clearly isn't a "housekeeper". I'm not sure what it is, but I certainly wouldn't be paying it.

We stayed in a property in Italy once that was extremely dirty. We were able to chase down the " housekeeper" & ask her to clean up because we could communicate - but I bet she was pocketing the turnover money and doing nothing each week, knowing that most UK visitors don't speak Italian.
Best,
Alexia.
Clexane
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Post by Clexane »

Susan,

There actually is a star rating system in France. We are getting assessed in September (it takes forever to book and get assessed) and are hoping for five stars.

It certainly has a comprehensive list of required inclusions all be it that they have no way of certifying cleanliness other than through compliants you could loss your stars. I notice that Visting France allows you to display stars. Would be a welcomed improvement for holiday rentals to permit the same and allow some differentiation.
So you wanted a holiday home in france ...

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la vache!
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Post by la vache! »

Clexane,
I have a problem with the tourist office stars! I can only get a rating in 1 property, in the others, the beam in the living area is below 2m high (the cottage is 17th century) and because of this any French rating is impossible. In the Farmhouse, because the central heating is solid wood, I cannot get a rating for winter lets as it is not considered acceptable for people to fill a stove with wood in the winter (personally I have never had a complaint from any guests, they all think its part of living the country)
The place I mentioned above would probably qualify for these ratings, mine doesn't on technicalities. I know where I would rather stay!
That is the problem with a lot of guides, sod the comfort, every property has to conform. I think the charm of older rental properties lies in their character, which is very hard to categorise. I know you have a lovely property which I'm sure you will have no problems getting a top rating for, I just wany something that considers comfort and charm instead of measurements!
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Renaud
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Post by Renaud »

comfort and charm instead of measurements
I know what you mean, but therein lies the problem.
I've seen too many properties laying on the charm aspect.
"Welcome to our little piece of heaven...."
"Views to die for..."
"Quaint, cosy, rustic blah blah, not really telling you anything, hiding reality behind friendly waffle...blah, blah...."

Of course the meeting of standards for standards sake is also pointless. Your example of 'no beams under 2 metres' is typically silly.

But I would like to see certain facts. How about size of swimming pool? Maximum number of people with pool access? Size of double bed (often described as 'king size'), as well as single bed size?

Susan, I bet your friends didn't book a property that was described as having "a pool in a shed, with charming rude graffiti scrawled on the bunk beds...etc". More likely the facts were quietly ignored while the thesaurus was scanned for alternatives to 'charming', 'beguiling', 'rustic' etc.

It's time that as a group of advertisers we put our heads together and tried to decide on a small number of facts that an ad must clearly state. And then we should tell listing sites that they should include these or we will take our business to another site that has a more responsible attitude to the ads it takes.
Last edited by Renaud on Mon Aug 15, 2005 3:52 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Clexane
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Post by Clexane »

Susan,

I do sympathise with your situation as when I go to book places I always look for the charm and character factor. The problem as Renaud describes is that it is hard to specify and measure charm and character objectively and thus difficult to rate. The way I have got some clarity in the past is to book places based on feedback of past guests and herein lies, I think, where your bets should ride. Trying to get people to use the rentors.org system - which uses an ebay style rating for positive and negatives may serve to meet your needs but it is no where near universal enough.

Renaud,

I really think the listing sites are in it to get as many sites listed as possible and I dont think the vast majority are interested in making it harder to register. Also short of inspecting every property there is no way they can police such a system. Some sites do do this and are very expensive and arguably no more effective than the majors out there.

Last thought also ... its those really bad places that make us look so good :D
So you wanted a holiday home in france ...

www.villaemmanuelle.com
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Renaud
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Post by Renaud »

Clexane, I agree that listing sites are not always too interested in vetting their advertisers. And policing by inspection is never going to happen without a major price hike.

But, take for example swimming pool size. The pool is often a 'make or break' factor in renting. But the potential renter may not realise the vast difference in pool sizes that exist. To them they are probably all just 'pools' and look great! But sometimes they will learn to their cost that the 'fabulous pool' described is totally inadequate for the group of twelve that had to use what turned out to be a tiny pool. It's difficult to argue for a refund against 'fabulous pool'. The owners 'fabulous' is simply different from the renters idea of 'fabulous'. In reality the owners probably know that their pool is inadequate for the numbers involved. But if they are not asked to state actual size then why should they? Another nice booking in their pocket, and not in yours.
All that I am asking for, is to start to pressurise for the obligatory inclusion of some basic factual information. If the ad says the pool is 10m x 5m, and it isn't, then the renter has some redress. We, as responsible property owners, should be demanding a more even playing field.
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enid
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Post by enid »

We stayed in a gite - luckily at Christmas so the pool wasn't an issue - and the owner proudly pointed out the pool which was an L shape - this end is for the first gite and this end is for the second - er pardon? Each end of the L was only big enough to do two strokes. When our pool was built my husband called across to our daughter who was sitting at the other end of the pool - she had been with us on the trip to the L shaped pool - 'are you talking to me ?'she said - 'yes' - 'sorry I can't talk to you, I'm in gite number 1'

Quel folie!!!
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marcus
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Post by marcus »

Now that is a good idea.
Instead of 'shared pool 12m * 6m we will now advertise two gites each with 'private pool 6m * 6m' or even better 'private triangular pool 12m * 6m' I could even stick a fence across the middle...
Yippee I'm going to be rich next year
Although I still can't help the person who enquired recently if the pool would be heated during August.

Meanwhile if someone else here will award me 5 stars I will award them 5 stars back, a bit like website link exchanging. And we can both say, with some truth (not much, but more than the advert mentioned above) 'awarded 5 stars by a leading french holiday company' or similar.

Seriously I think that Clevacances in France try harder than Gites de France - they look at 'environment, general comfort, etc' rather than ceiling height and number of microwave ovens. Although I am with neither and don't plan to be, for reasons previously mentioned by others in other threads (I am not interested in the French market etc)
la vache!
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Post by la vache! »

Marcus,
Having had Clévacances and G de F both round to inspect, I can confirm that their criteria is pretty much the same, the beam height and heating issue came up with both organisations as a zero rating. Shame really as everything else was fine!
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Alan Knighting
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Post by Alan Knighting »

Marcus,
I am not interested in the French market etc
Nor am I - well, not exclusively. I don't concentrate on any one country of origin. I don't give a damn where people come from, so long as they come. My visitors come from all over the world, including France, and I am happy with that.

What's the problem? My pool is private because it is not a public pool, it belongs to me. My pool is a shared pool in that my visitors share it amongst themselves. There is no problem.

Alan
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marcus
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Post by marcus »

Alan,

When I say I am not interested in the French market I am not saying I don't want French people to stay, they do and they are welcome. What I mean is that the defining characteristics of the local French market are usually lower price, lower facilities, and more guests squeezed in per square metre. It is for that reason that I don't advertise with GdF or Clevacances, since our prices would look very non-competitive. There are many places near us that beat us hands down on 'price per person'.

Re pool, the difference is that a 'private pool' ie private to one holiday property earns very approximately £25-40 per person per week more than a 'shared pool' during high season so 'deceptive or misleading advertising' as described above could become quite lucrative. No problem though, I was elaborating on Enid's comments about a pool having 'designated areas' for each gite - everyone seems very happy with our 'communal' pool as it is!
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Alan Knighting
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Post by Alan Knighting »

Marcus,

You are expressing the same thoughts as I have about the "French" market. I have stayed in "French" style Gites in the past and they all fell well short of my expectations. Most of them were priced accordingly.

You may well be right that some people would want exclusive use of my private pool. Whether or not they are prepared to pay extra for that facility I really don't know but I do take your point about deceptive or misleading advertising.

Alan
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