Itsonlyyou - my last post sounds very bossy: sorry! We had a similar experience with an oven door - visitors denied responsability - no question of insurance - we gave the door to the supplier, who had it examined and wrote a report placing liability on the visitors. We kept the sec dep. It did take over a month to sort out.
Let us know what you decide to do.
What would you do?
We were totally mad that the design was discontinued at Leroy Merlin....(but that's the way places like these make their money!)...the marble surround was made to measure around that particular type of basin...so we had no choice but to buy a completely different unit.Interesting that that design was no longer availble...did others have the same problem?!
Anyway, to answer your question we have an identical bathroom fixture in the ensuite (both bathrooms were refurbished at the same time with exact same fixtures) and that is still going strong.
Thank you all so much for your helpful comments. We work through an agent, so the guests are obliged to have insurance. I haven't checked the wording of my insurance (it's in French!), but I'm sure Susan's right, and damage by guests won't be covered.
Unfortunately, most of the deposit will disappear because of linen charges (which are extra) and they asked to use the phone - so far the charges amount to €83 (they are using e-mail via the UK at peak times!). All this will come out of the deposit, so there won't be much left to withhold!
If, when I see the basin, I think the guests definitely did it, I'll try Alexia's course of action, though, and we'll see what happens. I agree with Crystal - the basin was perfect when they arrived. They even admitted it was OK one night, and cracked the next morning! And just because something is beautiful it doesn't mean it isn't robust. It is a very solid piece of furniture (you can see part of it in one of the pics on my webpage) but obviously not designed for sitting on. Again, I think Crystal has hit the nail on the head there.Any basin would have cracked under that duress.
I didn't mention the property manager also had to go round and fix a leaking plug hole in the bath upstairs (I don't understand that one!). I must admit I asked him if they are 'generously proportioned', and he said yes! (There are 5 adults.)
I'll let you know what happens.
Unfortunately, most of the deposit will disappear because of linen charges (which are extra) and they asked to use the phone - so far the charges amount to €83 (they are using e-mail via the UK at peak times!). All this will come out of the deposit, so there won't be much left to withhold!
If, when I see the basin, I think the guests definitely did it, I'll try Alexia's course of action, though, and we'll see what happens. I agree with Crystal - the basin was perfect when they arrived. They even admitted it was OK one night, and cracked the next morning! And just because something is beautiful it doesn't mean it isn't robust. It is a very solid piece of furniture (you can see part of it in one of the pics on my webpage) but obviously not designed for sitting on. Again, I think Crystal has hit the nail on the head there.Any basin would have cracked under that duress.
I didn't mention the property manager also had to go round and fix a leaking plug hole in the bath upstairs (I don't understand that one!). I must admit I asked him if they are 'generously proportioned', and he said yes! (There are 5 adults.)
I'll let you know what happens.
Itsonlyme,
One key lesson to take away is that the security deposit should not be used to cover expenses. If they need linen then this should be paid upfront. Also if you are offering the phone you should increase your security.
We take €800 deposit from our guests to cover such eventualities.
I would get the plumber who originally installed the basin to come around and have a look at it. Get his opinion and go from there. It could very well be the installation. You will get a fairly good idea by how he responds.
Hope it works out for you. Try to keep your chin up it will get better.
One key lesson to take away is that the security deposit should not be used to cover expenses. If they need linen then this should be paid upfront. Also if you are offering the phone you should increase your security.
We take €800 deposit from our guests to cover such eventualities.
I would get the plumber who originally installed the basin to come around and have a look at it. Get his opinion and go from there. It could very well be the installation. You will get a fairly good idea by how he responds.
Hope it works out for you. Try to keep your chin up it will get better.
Crystal,
It is surprisingly cheap to buy marble cut to measure (& installed), especially if you just need an off-cut. If the other unit breaks (it won't - touch-wood, cross fingers, extende second & fifth fingers on both hands, hold a red chili over your head).......get a quote from your local marble supplier (look in the yellow pages).
It is surprisingly cheap to buy marble cut to measure (& installed), especially if you just need an off-cut. If the other unit breaks (it won't - touch-wood, cross fingers, extende second & fifth fingers on both hands, hold a red chili over your head).......get a quote from your local marble supplier (look in the yellow pages).
Best,
Alexia.
Alexia.
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Alan Knighting
- Posts: 4120
- Joined: Mon Oct 18, 2004 7:26 am
- Location: Monflanquin, Lot-et-Garonne, France
I think this thread illustrates one of the differences between working through an agent/manager and living on-site, as I do.
Throughout a letting season I am often called on by my guests to fix something or other. Sometimes it is a major problem, sometimes it is completely trivial. Whatever, it gets fixed straight away.
The thing is, at the end of the season, I tend to forget what I have and haven't done. Most of the labour was my own and I only had to pay for parts, where necessary.
An agent/manager will usually call someone in to do the work and will make a full charge for everything, including his time, and there lies the big difference.
Alan
Throughout a letting season I am often called on by my guests to fix something or other. Sometimes it is a major problem, sometimes it is completely trivial. Whatever, it gets fixed straight away.
The thing is, at the end of the season, I tend to forget what I have and haven't done. Most of the labour was my own and I only had to pay for parts, where necessary.
An agent/manager will usually call someone in to do the work and will make a full charge for everything, including his time, and there lies the big difference.
Alan
Just had a look - very similar to ours...surely someone in their right mind wouldn't sit on that!!!...incredible if that is what has happened.
I cannot see how it could be overtightened to make a crack appear over night...also our water is very hot here and has never caused any damage...the glass is too thick.
But I have to say I had the idea of putting a glass bowl in the new ensuite in our St Germain property - both my husband and our plumber said NO...they both felt it would be abused...we bought a strong modern unit from Brico Depot.
Hadn't realised you had an agent. I agree, it their responsibility to sort it out - isn't that why they take such a large percentage to deal with these bitter blows? I think you should be having a few strong words with the agents...then perhaps be looking at altenative solutions for letting out the property. i.e. own marketing and someone local to manage it for you in France.
I would not accept another booking from these people for Christmas...I think they possibly are in the wrong sort of house!
Good luck with it all - let us know what happens.
I cannot see how it could be overtightened to make a crack appear over night...also our water is very hot here and has never caused any damage...the glass is too thick.
But I have to say I had the idea of putting a glass bowl in the new ensuite in our St Germain property - both my husband and our plumber said NO...they both felt it would be abused...we bought a strong modern unit from Brico Depot.
Hadn't realised you had an agent. I agree, it their responsibility to sort it out - isn't that why they take such a large percentage to deal with these bitter blows? I think you should be having a few strong words with the agents...then perhaps be looking at altenative solutions for letting out the property. i.e. own marketing and someone local to manage it for you in France.
I would not accept another booking from these people for Christmas...I think they possibly are in the wrong sort of house!
Good luck with it all - let us know what happens.
it's all a learning curve!
Well for us it was a time element more than anything as we had bookings back to back. We went to the local marble supplier and we would have had to wait 4 days for the marble to be cut and shaped and they needed the original surround to use as a template.It is surprisingly cheap to buy marble cut to measure (& installed), especially if you just need an off-cut. If the other unit breaks (it won't - touch-wood, cross fingers, extende second & fifth fingers on both hands, hold a red chili over your head).......get a quote from your local marble supplier (look in the yellow pages).
We just picked up a completely different unit going on special offer at Leyroy Merlins for 85 euros (mirror, lights, marble and cupboard underneath)..apologised to the new guests and had it fitted by the plumber on a day that they were not in so that their holiday was not disrupted.
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Alan Knighting
- Posts: 4120
- Joined: Mon Oct 18, 2004 7:26 am
- Location: Monflanquin, Lot-et-Garonne, France
OK, here we go, for all of you wondering what happened. Are you sitting comfortably? Then I'll begin!
Firstly, the plumber (not the one who installed the basin) reckoned the waste was not overtightened and, having seen the damage for myself, I'm certain the guests dropped something in the basin. There is a massive crack going up from the plughole to the top of the basin with a tiny chip at the bottom of the crack. The plumber knows someone who works at the supplier's, and they are going to send the basin back to the manufacturer for a report. I don't hold out much hope for a refund, though.
Here is the list of other problems we encountered:
Electric towel heater pulled off the wall (we think perhaps they were using it as a grab rail, as it is unfortunately sited next to the loo)
Water apparently was leaking through the ceiling from the upstairs bath (used by ourselves with no ill effects - we're waiting on the plumber's report on that one)
They bought a barbeque (when I expressly forbade the use of one, because the terrace has a vaulted wooden ceiling and is thus a fire hazard - the house is a colombage) and used my (new) Teflon pans on it. One has had food burnt on, been cleaned with a scourer and is therefore ruined
Two broken glasses, one chipped
Two missing knives and teaspoons
Braid part pulled off one of the tapestry cushions
Missing pack of cards
Oh, and their phone bill was €103 - they were surfing the net via the UK during peak hours! They didn't seem concerned and paid up for that happily enough.
Needless to say we had no holiday, because we spent the week sorting everything out. It was lucky we didn't have guests back to back, or we would have had to cancel the next booking and incurred penalties.
The agent, by the way, is not responsible for anything but booking out/marketing the property. We do everything else. I've written to them and said we don't want to rent out next year - as Musicmonkey says, it doesn't seem worth all the hassle for so little return. The terms and conditions say we have to pay a penalty of €1600 if we cancel after 31st May, but I am hoping they will waive that. If not, we are stuck for another season. Needless to say, I shall attempt to ban those guests (they loved the house and want to come back!), although it would be difficult if they booked under another name!
In case anyone asks, no, the property manager didn't retain the deposit (I think they intimidated him - 5 against one, for a start!) and don't suggest I get another property manager, because we're already on our second, and that was only our second booking! The first had a nervous breakdown and thus unintentionally left us in the lurch, but that's another story. She has seen the basin and reckons something was dropped in it. After 5 years of property management experience, she reckons we are very unlucky!
I've ordered a replacement ceramic basin, but if someone drops a heavy object in any basin it is likely to crack, except maybe one of those stainless steel ones, and I hate them - they look too medical and are hard to keep looking clean.
And it's all very well saying you shouldn't have anything in the house you would get upset about being damaged or whatever - this isn't just a holiday let, it's our house!
Anyway, we've had enough and, although we shall be poor paying for the place, at least it will stay intact for a lot longer and we can enjoy it ourselves in peace!
Firstly, the plumber (not the one who installed the basin) reckoned the waste was not overtightened and, having seen the damage for myself, I'm certain the guests dropped something in the basin. There is a massive crack going up from the plughole to the top of the basin with a tiny chip at the bottom of the crack. The plumber knows someone who works at the supplier's, and they are going to send the basin back to the manufacturer for a report. I don't hold out much hope for a refund, though.
Here is the list of other problems we encountered:
Electric towel heater pulled off the wall (we think perhaps they were using it as a grab rail, as it is unfortunately sited next to the loo)
Water apparently was leaking through the ceiling from the upstairs bath (used by ourselves with no ill effects - we're waiting on the plumber's report on that one)
They bought a barbeque (when I expressly forbade the use of one, because the terrace has a vaulted wooden ceiling and is thus a fire hazard - the house is a colombage) and used my (new) Teflon pans on it. One has had food burnt on, been cleaned with a scourer and is therefore ruined
Two broken glasses, one chipped
Two missing knives and teaspoons
Braid part pulled off one of the tapestry cushions
Missing pack of cards
Oh, and their phone bill was €103 - they were surfing the net via the UK during peak hours! They didn't seem concerned and paid up for that happily enough.
Needless to say we had no holiday, because we spent the week sorting everything out. It was lucky we didn't have guests back to back, or we would have had to cancel the next booking and incurred penalties.
The agent, by the way, is not responsible for anything but booking out/marketing the property. We do everything else. I've written to them and said we don't want to rent out next year - as Musicmonkey says, it doesn't seem worth all the hassle for so little return. The terms and conditions say we have to pay a penalty of €1600 if we cancel after 31st May, but I am hoping they will waive that. If not, we are stuck for another season. Needless to say, I shall attempt to ban those guests (they loved the house and want to come back!), although it would be difficult if they booked under another name!
In case anyone asks, no, the property manager didn't retain the deposit (I think they intimidated him - 5 against one, for a start!) and don't suggest I get another property manager, because we're already on our second, and that was only our second booking! The first had a nervous breakdown and thus unintentionally left us in the lurch, but that's another story. She has seen the basin and reckons something was dropped in it. After 5 years of property management experience, she reckons we are very unlucky!
I've ordered a replacement ceramic basin, but if someone drops a heavy object in any basin it is likely to crack, except maybe one of those stainless steel ones, and I hate them - they look too medical and are hard to keep looking clean.
And it's all very well saying you shouldn't have anything in the house you would get upset about being damaged or whatever - this isn't just a holiday let, it's our house!
Anyway, we've had enough and, although we shall be poor paying for the place, at least it will stay intact for a lot longer and we can enjoy it ourselves in peace!
Well then you are doing the right thing - keep it for yourselves and don't let it out.
It is hard being in rentals - I do think you have been unlucky to a degree - I used to count cutlery and glasses - I don't any more - I just buy more & chuck it in by the handful - same with glasses - buy them by the tray load...there is no point in getting upset about those type of things.
The damage to the bowl and the radiator off the wall - yes that is damage, but even if you did have another booking straight away you shouldn't have to cancel it - you just have to get someone out quick...it's the name of the game I'm afraid.
I could list all sorts of things that we find each week - I get upset with someone trying to pull the wool or really trash the place like with my liverpudlian episode, where they had pee'd all over the floor,stuck chewing gum to shower wall, left half chewed pizza down the back of the cushions etc. Now that is when I get well fed up!
But I do think you have slightly blurred the lines between a holiday rental & your own home...it is so very hard letting out something that you really care about - to strangers who don't have the same empathy as you and also are in holiday mode - it's a potentially lethal cocktail!
Good luck - sorry you aren't keeping at it - but it is the right thing to do for you, quit while you are ahead...sanity wise at least!
It is hard being in rentals - I do think you have been unlucky to a degree - I used to count cutlery and glasses - I don't any more - I just buy more & chuck it in by the handful - same with glasses - buy them by the tray load...there is no point in getting upset about those type of things.
The damage to the bowl and the radiator off the wall - yes that is damage, but even if you did have another booking straight away you shouldn't have to cancel it - you just have to get someone out quick...it's the name of the game I'm afraid.
I could list all sorts of things that we find each week - I get upset with someone trying to pull the wool or really trash the place like with my liverpudlian episode, where they had pee'd all over the floor,stuck chewing gum to shower wall, left half chewed pizza down the back of the cushions etc. Now that is when I get well fed up!
But I do think you have slightly blurred the lines between a holiday rental & your own home...it is so very hard letting out something that you really care about - to strangers who don't have the same empathy as you and also are in holiday mode - it's a potentially lethal cocktail!
Good luck - sorry you aren't keeping at it - but it is the right thing to do for you, quit while you are ahead...sanity wise at least!
it's all a learning curve!
Itsonlyyou - what a depressing experience. I am so sorry for you. You never know how people will turn out - it's not about age, class, nationality, income - even a "reliable" profession like teaching has exceptions (we had one last week - the first exception to my "rule" that teachers are a "good thing"). We have never let our own home - the damage that could be done is too important. We do let the ground floor of our home, though, and we had dreadful visitors last week - the ones who "lost" the book, ruined the stainless steel oven door (Alan - I rang your number: very helpful, thank you!)..... they also left huge stains of oil (suntan oil?) in our 19th century tiled floor. They weren't malicious; they were actually very friendly! I try to be patient and tell myself that some people just don't know how to look after things - I imagine they live in a mess at home, without beautiful things around them.
What about household insurance for your basin? Fixtures are usually covered against damage.
What about household insurance for your basin? Fixtures are usually covered against damage.
Best,
Alexia.
Alexia.
I can totally understand why you've decided to chuck the towel in. I think if at the start of our rental career we had a spate of 'uncaring guests' that treated our villa with no respect then I would do the same too.
It is a daunting experience when you start to rent your property out (especially if you don't live in the same country) and we all wish we had 'perfect' guests all the time but to get that we'd all have to live in LaLa land! Personally I think I was in LaLa land when I had the brain wave of renting out our villa!
It is a daunting experience when you start to rent your property out (especially if you don't live in the same country) and we all wish we had 'perfect' guests all the time but to get that we'd all have to live in LaLa land! Personally I think I was in LaLa land when I had the brain wave of renting out our villa!