Has anyone out there had a website professionally designed - and can you give me some idea of how much this should cost? Or is it a case of how long is a piece of string!
Also, is it worth paying the website design company an annual 'maintenance' fee to keep your site ranked in the search engines etc.? or is this just sales ploy on their behalf?
Helen
http://www.abersochholidays.co.uk
What does a professionally designed website cost?
Very roughly somewhere around $100 or £100 per page for a 3-5 page site. These things seem to be a little cheaper in the US. And with the dollar so low against the pound it's a good time to shop transatlantic.
You do not need to keep submitting your site to search engines. In fact, as long as you have at least one link to your site from a site already indexed by search engines, you don't need to submit at all. They will find you all by themselves.
You do need to submit to directories. These differ from search engines in that they are compiled by human editors (the good ones are anyway). But I would not rely on another party to submit to directories for you, it's something you should do yourself because what they ask of you differs and you're the best-placed person to give the right information. (I'll be writing about this in the next Lay My Hat, and there will be a more extended article in the forum).
Other fixed costs of having a website: domain name and web hosting service. If your site is a book and the internet is a library, a hosting service is a book-shelf. You don't need to pay more than $120/£60 a year, which should include the domain name registration.
Then the designer may offer a maintenance service for an annual fee - for when you want to make changes. I don't know what sort of rate they ask for this, but it is not that hard with a little diligence to learn to make the changes yourself.
You do not need to keep submitting your site to search engines. In fact, as long as you have at least one link to your site from a site already indexed by search engines, you don't need to submit at all. They will find you all by themselves.
You do need to submit to directories. These differ from search engines in that they are compiled by human editors (the good ones are anyway). But I would not rely on another party to submit to directories for you, it's something you should do yourself because what they ask of you differs and you're the best-placed person to give the right information. (I'll be writing about this in the next Lay My Hat, and there will be a more extended article in the forum).
Other fixed costs of having a website: domain name and web hosting service. If your site is a book and the internet is a library, a hosting service is a book-shelf. You don't need to pay more than $120/£60 a year, which should include the domain name registration.
Then the designer may offer a maintenance service for an annual fee - for when you want to make changes. I don't know what sort of rate they ask for this, but it is not that hard with a little diligence to learn to make the changes yourself.
Paolo
Lay My Hat
Lay My Hat
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Linda Freese
- Posts: 175
- Joined: Sat Oct 02, 2004 9:00 am
- Location: Costa del Sol
I keep getting sales emails re building web sites - when I make enquiries I'm then blinded by science so loose the determination...also I have been quoted from £300 - £1000+ and it means that if I want to update it I have to go through the person that built it at £10 per hour...so ladies, (I noticed it was all ladies on this thread apart from Paolo...so please I'm not being sexist!!), perhaps we should put our heads together and see if we could either find a straight forward no nonsense web designer without all the technical frightening stuff - or perhaps do it ourselves...
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Linda Freese
- Posts: 175
- Joined: Sat Oct 02, 2004 9:00 am
- Location: Costa del Sol
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Splash Internet
- Posts: 7
- Joined: Wed Oct 27, 2004 6:44 am
- Location: Tarn
- Contact:
I've only just noticed this thread. We have done hundreds of travel websites over the years (been trading since 1993), primarily for the accommodation sector. It's what we specialise in. I thought it would be helpful if I explained how our pricing works. Before I do, though, I'll stress that we're not the cheapest out there. That's never something we've strived to be. We just aim to be the best at what we do, rather than the cheapest!
OK... so when it comes to doing a website for someone, we explain there are four main stages.
1. Domains/hosting
2. Design of the site itself
3. (Online) promotion
4. Maintenance
Our pricing is broken into four parts, relating to the above.
1. Domains/hosting
Most of our clients go for what we call our standard domain and hosting package. In short, this comprises:
Domain name
Hosting
30 MB of web space (more than ample for most people's needs)
Up to 3GB bandwidth/mo (ditto)
Stats by email on a monthly basis
Email forwarding, or POP3 accounts
We have two dedicated servers of our own, fully managed and housed in a data center in London, and the above package on one of these servers is £150 + VAT pa.
2. Design of the site itself
In short, as Paolo suggests, we charge £100 + VAT per page. However, the first page of the site with us is actually £250 + VAT. The reaso for this is that the first page usually involves most of the design work.
Therefore...
....a 4 page site: (1x£250) + (3x£100) = £550 + VAT
....a 5 page site: (1x£250) + (4x£100) = £650 + VAT
....a 6 page site: (1x£250) + (5x£100) = £750 + VAT
...and so on.
3. Online promotion
OK, moving on to this item. I can't stress enough that I think this is the most important part of the whole job. A great website is one thing but it's useless if it's not promoted well.
We offer what we call a standard promotion package for £200 + VAT pa. Essentially, what this entails is listing you favourably on some of our already established sites (eg. @UK and Aardvark Travel) which get good levels of traffic, and give your online presence a good kick-start. In addition to that, we submit your site to other directories and sites where we know where we can get links to our clients (without the need for reciprocal linking). We regularly maintain a database of these types of sites - both for our own needs and for clients - and it currently contains around 300 sites which we regularly submit to. The reason for this kind of work is two-fold: a) the links themselves will tend to bring a little traffic, and b) more importantly, these links will improve your link popularity and, as a result, you'll get better performance in search engines such as Google which use link popularity as a key factor in determining their rankings. Because we specialise in travel sites, the kinds of sites that we submit to tend to have a travel and tourism bias. We feel this is a key factor that sets us apart from other Web design companies out there.
4. Maintenance
OK... the final item... maintenance. We offer a variety of options on this front. Programs that allow people to edit a page on their site without a need to know HTML, pre-paid packages that cover people for so many hours' worth of changes per annum, or we can just bill for work on an ad hoc basis as and when it's required. Those that are more internet savvy can choose options whereby they do updates themselves but, from my experience, hotel and cottage owners are often best spending their time welcoming guests, etc. than trying to make head or tail of HTML and PHP!
That's all for now but if anyone has any questions then feel free to ask.
Aaron
OK... so when it comes to doing a website for someone, we explain there are four main stages.
1. Domains/hosting
2. Design of the site itself
3. (Online) promotion
4. Maintenance
Our pricing is broken into four parts, relating to the above.
1. Domains/hosting
Most of our clients go for what we call our standard domain and hosting package. In short, this comprises:
Domain name
Hosting
30 MB of web space (more than ample for most people's needs)
Up to 3GB bandwidth/mo (ditto)
Stats by email on a monthly basis
Email forwarding, or POP3 accounts
We have two dedicated servers of our own, fully managed and housed in a data center in London, and the above package on one of these servers is £150 + VAT pa.
2. Design of the site itself
In short, as Paolo suggests, we charge £100 + VAT per page. However, the first page of the site with us is actually £250 + VAT. The reaso for this is that the first page usually involves most of the design work.
Therefore...
....a 4 page site: (1x£250) + (3x£100) = £550 + VAT
....a 5 page site: (1x£250) + (4x£100) = £650 + VAT
....a 6 page site: (1x£250) + (5x£100) = £750 + VAT
...and so on.
3. Online promotion
OK, moving on to this item. I can't stress enough that I think this is the most important part of the whole job. A great website is one thing but it's useless if it's not promoted well.
We offer what we call a standard promotion package for £200 + VAT pa. Essentially, what this entails is listing you favourably on some of our already established sites (eg. @UK and Aardvark Travel) which get good levels of traffic, and give your online presence a good kick-start. In addition to that, we submit your site to other directories and sites where we know where we can get links to our clients (without the need for reciprocal linking). We regularly maintain a database of these types of sites - both for our own needs and for clients - and it currently contains around 300 sites which we regularly submit to. The reason for this kind of work is two-fold: a) the links themselves will tend to bring a little traffic, and b) more importantly, these links will improve your link popularity and, as a result, you'll get better performance in search engines such as Google which use link popularity as a key factor in determining their rankings. Because we specialise in travel sites, the kinds of sites that we submit to tend to have a travel and tourism bias. We feel this is a key factor that sets us apart from other Web design companies out there.
4. Maintenance
OK... the final item... maintenance. We offer a variety of options on this front. Programs that allow people to edit a page on their site without a need to know HTML, pre-paid packages that cover people for so many hours' worth of changes per annum, or we can just bill for work on an ad hoc basis as and when it's required. Those that are more internet savvy can choose options whereby they do updates themselves but, from my experience, hotel and cottage owners are often best spending their time welcoming guests, etc. than trying to make head or tail of HTML and PHP!
That's all for now but if anyone has any questions then feel free to ask.
Aaron
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Alan Knighting
- Posts: 4120
- Joined: Mon Oct 18, 2004 7:26 am
- Location: Monflanquin, Lot-et-Garonne, France
altyfc,
I have a friend in Cramlington, Northumberland, whose business is domain name creation and registration, web page design, website hosting, optimisation for search engine listings, etc.
Her charges are very similar to yours and so is her approach! A website should be a “good� website but, no matter how good, it must be found when doing a search (Google, Dogpile, etc.).
altyfc,
I am sure you are absolutely right. No matter how superb a website might be, if it is not found by search engines it is almost completely useless.
On the face of it, a professionally created and maintained website is an expensive animal but most of the cost comes in the first year. Thereafter the running costs are really quite modest. Just compare it with the annual cost of advertising in national newspapers, brochures and glossy magazines – and compare the results. Also compare the potential size of your audience if you get it right.
Alan
I have a friend in Cramlington, Northumberland, whose business is domain name creation and registration, web page design, website hosting, optimisation for search engine listings, etc.
Her charges are very similar to yours and so is her approach! A website should be a “good� website but, no matter how good, it must be found when doing a search (Google, Dogpile, etc.).
altyfc,
I am sure you are absolutely right. No matter how superb a website might be, if it is not found by search engines it is almost completely useless.
On the face of it, a professionally created and maintained website is an expensive animal but most of the cost comes in the first year. Thereafter the running costs are really quite modest. Just compare it with the annual cost of advertising in national newspapers, brochures and glossy magazines – and compare the results. Also compare the potential size of your audience if you get it right.
Alan
That's right. I have always thought you are better off having a very mediocre website that's promoted really well than a superb website that gets little promotion. Obviously, though, the ideal is that both the design and the promotion are done well... but you get my point.Alan Knighting wrote:altyfc,
I have a friend in Cramlington, Northumberland, whose business is domain name creation and registration, web page design, website hosting, optimisation for search engine listings, etc.
Her charges are very similar to yours and so is her approach! A website should be a “good� website but, no matter how good, it must be found when doing a search (Google, Dogpile, etc.).
altyfc,
I am sure you are absolutely right. No matter how superb a website might be, if it is not found by search engines it is almost completely useless.
Again, spot on. Websites aren't that cheap (well, they can be but we won't talk about those companies!Alan Knighting wrote:On the face of it, a professionally created and maintained website is an expensive animal but most of the cost comes in the first year. Thereafter the running costs are really quite modest. Just compare it with the annual cost of advertising in national newspapers, brochures and glossy magazines – and compare the results. Also compare the potential size of your audience if you get it right.
Alan
) but the bulk of the cost is indeed in year one. If you go for a simple site that isn't likely to date quickly, you can probably keep your original design for years and years to come. This one that we did for an upmarket bed and breakfast in the Yorkshire Dales about 2 years ago isn't all that fancy, but I could imagine it still looking fine in 5 years time. Assuming they do retain this design, the only ongoing costs they have are updates (seemingly only the tariff page once a year) and domain/hosting and promotion costs. All that probably amounts to around £400 + VAT a year. Just one weekend's advertising in a national daily (which has a far smaller audience and a far shorter shelf life) could cost that, even for something very small.Aaron
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Alan Knighting
- Posts: 4120
- Joined: Mon Oct 18, 2004 7:26 am
- Location: Monflanquin, Lot-et-Garonne, France
Aaron,
Those figures are just about spot on – they relate almost exactly to our statistics.
For us, the “brochure & website� option will end after the 2005 season if the returns continue to diminish. We are a little apprehensive at the thought of abandoning traditional methods completely but, if they are not producing the goods then they are no good to us. It’s a bit like having an expensive toy, which is never used.
We feel sure that the £400+ p.a. would be better spent on a professionally created and maintained personal website. More expensive in year 1 but cheaper in subsequent years and potentially much more effective.
Another advantage is that a brochure is “set in stone� whereas a website can be kept up-to-date on a regular basis. Brochures have a shelf life, websites don’t. Websites can contain much more information, and more pictures, and a current bookings calendar.
Alan
Those figures are just about spot on – they relate almost exactly to our statistics.
For us, the “brochure & website� option will end after the 2005 season if the returns continue to diminish. We are a little apprehensive at the thought of abandoning traditional methods completely but, if they are not producing the goods then they are no good to us. It’s a bit like having an expensive toy, which is never used.
We feel sure that the £400+ p.a. would be better spent on a professionally created and maintained personal website. More expensive in year 1 but cheaper in subsequent years and potentially much more effective.
Another advantage is that a brochure is “set in stone� whereas a website can be kept up-to-date on a regular basis. Brochures have a shelf life, websites don’t. Websites can contain much more information, and more pictures, and a current bookings calendar.
Alan
Exactly right. I'm sure many here have experienced that horrible feeling of seeing a small typo or error on all your brochures that have just come back from the printer. With a website, those kinds of problems are much easier to fix!Alan Knighting wrote:Another advantage is that a brochure is “set in stone� whereas a website can be kept up-to-date on a regular basis. Brochures have a shelf life, websites don’t. Websites can contain much more information, and more pictures, and a current bookings calendar.
We have a number of clients that are gradually heading down the 'no brochure' route. We also have an increasing number of clients that have more than one website. This might seem a strange thing to do at first but there can be some sense in it. For example, one hotel that we work for has their usual main website, but they also have sites catering for specific niches (eg. weddings, leisure breaks, pampering/spa treatments, and conferences). I wonder if this is a trend which will grow further still as more and more people wake up to the cost effectiveness of online advertising?
Aaron
Thanks to Aaron for being upfront about his costs. At these rates, a 4-page site would be over £1000 in the first year and then over £400 plus maintenance each year after that.
If you are wondering where you can save money when you use a ‘turnkey’ website company, this is what I would suggest:
1. Domain registration and hosting. I am paying about £60 per year for both, and that includes everything you might possibly need. Elsewhere on this forum, see Soodyer’s post about her websites costing her nothing at all to host. But that really would be a barebones operation.
2. Design – this is where you have to bite the bullet and pay yer money, unless you do it yourself. I did mine myself but it was very time-consuming. However I wouldn’t say it was difficult. You just need time and application. You also need an eye for design. But if you don’t have that, you can just borrow it from a site you like the look of!
If you fear the internet, designing, creating and uploading a site is probably not for you.
3. Online promotion. Again, if you have the time to find out what you should be doing, you can do this yourself and it needn’t cost anything. There are many free tutorials and forums on the internet dedicated to this. I will also be writing about this soon, and listing the important search engines and directories you should submit to.
4. Maintenance. You can do this yourself, but as Aaron says, your time may be better spent looking after guests.
All of the above makes a good winter project. I don’t want to sound as if I am trying to put you off hiring the services of someone like Aaron – he’s very experienced in just our sector.
I know that many holiday rental owners find the internet totally incomprehensible and for them, paying a pro would be a good solution. But if you are not daunted by a bit of research, creating your own website is a very satisfying journey to undertake.
If you are wondering where you can save money when you use a ‘turnkey’ website company, this is what I would suggest:
1. Domain registration and hosting. I am paying about £60 per year for both, and that includes everything you might possibly need. Elsewhere on this forum, see Soodyer’s post about her websites costing her nothing at all to host. But that really would be a barebones operation.
2. Design – this is where you have to bite the bullet and pay yer money, unless you do it yourself. I did mine myself but it was very time-consuming. However I wouldn’t say it was difficult. You just need time and application. You also need an eye for design. But if you don’t have that, you can just borrow it from a site you like the look of!
If you fear the internet, designing, creating and uploading a site is probably not for you.
3. Online promotion. Again, if you have the time to find out what you should be doing, you can do this yourself and it needn’t cost anything. There are many free tutorials and forums on the internet dedicated to this. I will also be writing about this soon, and listing the important search engines and directories you should submit to.
4. Maintenance. You can do this yourself, but as Aaron says, your time may be better spent looking after guests.
All of the above makes a good winter project. I don’t want to sound as if I am trying to put you off hiring the services of someone like Aaron – he’s very experienced in just our sector.
I know that many holiday rental owners find the internet totally incomprehensible and for them, paying a pro would be a good solution. But if you are not daunted by a bit of research, creating your own website is a very satisfying journey to undertake.
Paolo
Lay My Hat
Lay My Hat
Yes, as Paolo points out, you can do all the above much more cheaply yourself. It's just a case of whether you have the time / know-how / inclination / desire to learn.
As for the domain/hosting, you can get far less than £60 per annum too. There's people like UK2.net who proudly advertise domain prices of £0.01 per month.
Suffice to say, you get what you pay for to some extent, as with anything in this world. There are some really good deals out there but it's not always easy to decipher.
Most of our clients really have very little clue about the internet (they would be put off at the prospect of using a forum, for instance) and like to be guided. That won't necessarily suit all, but there are a lot of people who 'switch off' as soon as they hear the word 'internet' because they think it's all too complicated.
Aaron
As for the domain/hosting, you can get far less than £60 per annum too. There's people like UK2.net who proudly advertise domain prices of £0.01 per month.
Suffice to say, you get what you pay for to some extent, as with anything in this world. There are some really good deals out there but it's not always easy to decipher.Most of our clients really have very little clue about the internet (they would be put off at the prospect of using a forum, for instance) and like to be guided. That won't necessarily suit all, but there are a lot of people who 'switch off' as soon as they hear the word 'internet' because they think it's all too complicated.
Aaron
I have advised people to do this in the past and been met with incredulity. For instance, someone who offered cookery courses at her gite. But I think it is good strategy, well worth the extra expense of having more than one site.We also have an increasing number of clients that have more than one website. This might seem a strange thing to do at first but there can be some sense in it. For example, one hotel that we work for has their usual main website, but they also have sites catering for specific niches (eg. weddings, leisure breaks, pampering/spa treatments, and conferences). I wonder if this is a trend which will grow further still as more and more people wake up to the cost effectiveness of online advertising?
Your guiding principle when you design/build/commission a website, is how to get that site seen and liked by your target market. So that when someone types into a search engine, for example, "Bonneville holiday house to rent", your site for your house in Bonneville has a chance of being seen among the results.
If you try to get your site found BOTH by house-renters and, for instance, people who are looking for a cookery course, you are halving the effectiveness or 'findability' of your site for each of these cases.
You may make the calculation that this isn't too bad - one site, two messages working at 50%, but at half the cost of two sites.
The trouble is that you will be lower down the search engine results for both types of search. People don't read through the thousands of results produced by a search engine. They typically read the first ten, and some may go as far as the first 30. But if you are in position 50, you may as well be at 50,000 - you won't be seen. And getting into the top 30, let alone the top ten, is hard enough as it is.
So you need your site to focus on one message only. And if you have two messages, you should have two sites.
This is a simplistic overview, from a simple person
Paolo
Lay My Hat
Lay My Hat
An interesting thread, I am currently having a website being constructed for my villa, the technical side is being done for me but I have to do the editorial and supply the pictures, fortunately I love `messing` around with the computer and thoroughly enjoy doing it, but be assured the amount of time it takes is horrendous, the amount of times I have typed one page of editorial and its still not reading properly, and then the pictures I am going to have to redo them even though at the time I thought they were brill. I would suggest that the prices quoted on here are good value considering the amount of work that can go into a `good` site. Before my site was started I will be the first to admit that I thought it a bit of a con....til I got involved.
Just my pennies worth.
Juco
Just my pennies worth.
Juco