fire checks

[jane reed]

Has any one had to put emergency lights on the stairs to comply with fire safety checks? These are lights that charge and if you have a power cut they go on for up to 4hrs.
Every year the rules change, so i have just paid to have fire blankets, fire extinguishers checked. All the electrics pac tested and added new lights.

[apexblue]

Is this compulsory? First I've heard of it or is it because holiday lets will be viewed as an AST from April and then I thought all the added extras were for multiple occupancy.

[Windy]

Not aware of it either although we do have Safe-T lights in our lodges in case of power cuts anyway (an dw edon't have stairs)

VB accommodation knowhow site states that there is a requirement for

Emergency lighting: in order for everyone to find their way out of the building safely there should be automatic emergency escape lighting. In some very small guesthouses there may be sufficient 'borrowed light' from street lights outside but this is not often the case.

It's all bit wooly really

http://www.communities.gov.uk/documents ... 144647.pdf

doesn't help a great deal more.

[jane reed]

Fire safety regulations introduced in 2006 required those responsible for small hospitality businesses to carry out a fire risk assessment for the first time. This covers b&b and Self catering cottages in england.

i am afraid it is more rules, but in lincolnshire we had the fire officer come and see us in october 2009 and he advised us to get these lights

[Windy]

Well once advised you can hardly not then can you?

[apexblue]

www.holidaylettings.co.uk/resources/own ... 1-29-1586/

[greenbarn]

http://www.communities.gov.uk/publicati ... yingguests

The above is a document that we received, and should be in the hands of everyone providing accommodation.
The front cover states Do you have paying guests? If so, fire safety law applies to you and you must take action.

One thought - the cost of installing emergency lighting and effective interlinked fire detection systems is significant; as far as I can understand if the FHL tax laws change as proposed, it won't be an allowable expense after April this year, but I haven't checked that with an accountant.

For conversion of existing property for use as holiday lets, this sort of stuff forms part of the building regs etc etc

[Windy]

as far as I can understand if the FHL tax laws change as proposed, it won't be an allowable expense after April this year, but I haven't checked that with an accountant.

I am sure you are right - it would be classed as Plant & Equipment which would attract caiptal allowances under the eixsting scheme but not after repeal.

Another great example of joined up government.

[jane reed]

i should ask the question more clearly, i know the rules are always changing, but these fire lights seem a little extreme. Are the lights building regs in new houses, should holiday accommodation be more safe than peoples own homes?

I am not running a large hotel with a maze of rooms, as the rules are very woolly, it depends on personal interpretation.

so has any one else been advised to fit fire lights?

i am just interested. thanks

[greenbarn]

Are the lights building regs in new houses, should holiday accommodation be more safe than peoples own homes?

I don't believe emergency lighting is a requirement in new build dwellings. Any property that is intended to be used as a FHL is subject to a change of use, and different requirements kick in.

Yes, holiday accommodation must be safer than people's own homes.

The acid test in a fire risk assessment is to put yourself in the position of a guest who has arrived that evening. You are in a totally unfamiliar property, you go to bed, fire breaks out, the lights are out, how easily can you find your way to the exits? In your own home you can probably do it from memory.

If you reach an exit, do you then need to find a key to open it? That's not acceptable; you must be able to open the door without a key. I asked if it was acceptable to have a key in a break glass box by the door: no.

Once outside, is there enough light to find your way around? Street lighting perhaps? Where we are there isn't a light for at least a mile in any direction, so we have to have external emergency lighting as well.

It may be acceptable to provide emergency torches in all rooms, of the sort that sit on a mains charger and automatically light if the mains fails. Maybe the fire officer would consider that rather than wired emergency lighting? Worth asking as if acceptable they'd only cost a few hundred pounds. Bear in mind that fixed emergency lights need a permanent live feed to them, unlike normal lighting. Depending on the design of the existing lighting circuits, that may not be a problem if the existing system uses loop-in boxes. If it doesn't, there's more expense and disruption involved in additional wiring.

As pointed out in an earlier post, the onus now sits entirely on the owner to carry out their own risk assessment (or pay someone to do it) and act accordingly. That risk assessment also needs to be updated eg is the rug you've just put in the property fire retardant etc etc. You'll probably find the time to do that whilst carrying out the regular checks on the interlinked smoke and heat detectors and test of the emergency lighting systems, plus status checks on the fire extinguishers and blanket - unless you also want time to clean the place, make the beds, meet the guests..........

[Austria]

The legislation is the Regulatory Reform (Fire Safety) Order 2005, which came into force in October 2006.

It ask the responsible person (the owner) to carry out a risk assessment, and take action on the significant findings ( write them down to prove that you have done).

So the responsible person would need to decide if emergency lighting was required? Is there borrowed light? is the means of escape complicated? as an (interim) measure if needed you provide a torches available on charge? Existing light fittings can be changed to incorporate battery packs.

There is a bit of a review taking place, if the Conservatives get in more likely to take place.

Having a fire blanket, and smoke detectors should be picked up on the risk assessment.

Good luck.

[Annew]

I had a professional fire risk assessment carried out recently, more to help with my access statement that anything else. Emergency lighting was recommended as was smoke detectors in all rooms, something I had not considered.
I've not yet put in these items, although I did comply with the rest of the risk assessment.

A point to note - a local holiday cottage complex (3 cottages) nearby to my location was inspected recently (by VB) and were chastised as they had not completed a fire risk assessment and informed that this must be carried out otherwise they would lose their rating.

Is it the fire risk assessment that is required or is it the actual implementation of the safety lighting/fire alarms etc etc.... I am truly baffled by all of this stuff

[Austria]

You need to do the risk assessment, but you only need to record the significant findings if you employ 5 or more. But it is easier to prove that you have done it if you record it down. ( hope that makes sense).

Keeping a log book to record your checks (fire alarm, emergency lighting etc. also provides supporting evidence.

Normally interlinked detection at the top and bottom of the staircase and one in the kitchen would suffice.

A wall mounted fire blanket would also be good practice.

Hope that helps.

[greenbarn]

Is it the fire risk assessment that is required or is it the actual implementation of the safety lighting/fire alarms etc etc.... I am truly baffled by all of this stuff

WRT to VB, they insist that a Fire Risk Assessment has been carried out and want to see it. However, they will not comment on its content, they just need to satisfy themselves that it's been done. Realistically, they can't go beyond that.
Hence for grading purposes the Risk Assessment is required; to conform with the legal obligations the actions identified within the RA need to be implemented. And yes it is all a bit baffling!

We have to have door closers everywhere, and no matter how much you adjust them, they always manage to slam at some point. Personally I'd rather risk being toasted than be disturbed by a door slamming at 4:00am, but what would I know?

[apexblue]

Just had a fire risk assessment done by the fire brigade no mention of emergency lighting but recommended no extinguisher only fire blanket and they fitted fire alarms in hall and landings only.