We have just heard back from a potential guest, who has challenged our terms and conditions and would welcome feedback from others on how they cover such.
The first point relates to guest insurance, where we say that adequate personal insurance cover should be in place for all members of their party to cover all personal risks and liabilities, including cancellation. We then go on to advise that we are not covered for such and that having such insurance is an explicit condition of the rental agreement. As this has never been challenged we have always assumed people have this in place as a norm, without asking to see evidence of it's existence. However the renter this time is seeking clarification on whether this is really necessary and as they are Italian I wondered if this has any bearing on the matter.
The second point relates to a request to have inserted into our contract that all appliances/devices have been verified as working before their arrival. Historically we have worked on the basis that all are working unless advised otherwise by the previous guests or the cleaner when completing the final clean. How feasible do you think it is to verify every device/appliance to ensure they are working and should everything be included including things such as hair dryers, TV's coffee machines etc?
I would welcome your views.
Terms & Conditions
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christinedavid
- Posts: 277
- Joined: Tue Nov 25, 2008 10:18 am
- Location: Turkey
- Contact:
Hi
It is entirely up to your guests if they're foolish enough to travel without travel insurance. It is, however, important that you have your own insurance for the buildings and contents including public liability insurance in case sonmeone tries to sue you if they get hurt eg slipping on the pool side etc. Even when travelling in your own country cancellation insurance is necessary.
It goes without saying that all electrical items etc are in working order.It doesn't need confirming in writing for each guest. I work on the same basis as you ie being informed of breakages, broken items etc at the end of each let, which can then be sorted out.This is a necessary check in relation to the return of the damages deposit.
It is entirely up to your guests if they're foolish enough to travel without travel insurance. It is, however, important that you have your own insurance for the buildings and contents including public liability insurance in case sonmeone tries to sue you if they get hurt eg slipping on the pool side etc. Even when travelling in your own country cancellation insurance is necessary.
It goes without saying that all electrical items etc are in working order.It doesn't need confirming in writing for each guest. I work on the same basis as you ie being informed of breakages, broken items etc at the end of each let, which can then be sorted out.This is a necessary check in relation to the return of the damages deposit.
Best wishes,
Christine
www.sharingadream.co.uk
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Villa-Sop ... 1197643136
Christine
www.sharingadream.co.uk
http://www.facebook.com/pages/Villa-Sop ... 1197643136
Travel insurance does seem to be regarded as something for foreign travel, not for travel in your own country. This seems to be changing but I think that is the background.
The electrical appliance one is daft: you can guarantee that appliances are working on the day of arrival and something can easily go wrong the minute the guest tries to switch something on, including that they may not actually know how to make an appliance work. This sounds like a guest who has had bad experiences in the past with stuff not working. They will need a lot of reassurance.
The electrical appliance one is daft: you can guarantee that appliances are working on the day of arrival and something can easily go wrong the minute the guest tries to switch something on, including that they may not actually know how to make an appliance work. This sounds like a guest who has had bad experiences in the past with stuff not working. They will need a lot of reassurance.
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harcourtv57
- Posts: 1433
- Joined: Thu Apr 24, 2008 5:14 pm
- Location: Southsea, UK, Porto Cristo Mallorca
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) but owners should have their own buildings, contents and personal liability insurance in place.
I think it would probably take about 15 minutes to verify that every appliance/device was at least able to turn on & start working. It's easy to check things like the microwave, coffee maker, oven, stove, fridge/freezer, hair dryers, lights, phone, etc. The dishwasher, the washer and the dryer would be the hardest to check, because it's possible for those to break in a way that you're not aware of until the cycle is finished. Unless they get used for a full cycle during a changeover, I think it would be hard to verify those yourself every time. But I think it's reasonable to verify them by asking the previous guests and making sure for yourself that they turn on and appear to be working properly at the start of a cycle.The second point relates to a request to have inserted into our contract that all appliances/devices have been verified as working before their arrival. Historically we have worked on the basis that all are working unless advised otherwise by the previous guests or the cleaner when completing the final clean. How feasible do you think it is to verify every device/appliance to ensure they are working and should everything be included including things such as hair dryers, TV's coffee machines etc?
So assuming it only takes around 15 minutes plus asking your previous guests a few questions, this clause seems like a win-win to me. It's just explicitly putting in writing what you were already going to provide anyway, and in the unlikely event that your guests break something themselves, you have their signature on a piece of paper that makes them fully responsible for the breakage.
I agree with Margaret here; I wouldn't be surprised if these guests had had a terrible experience with broken appliances at a past rental.
Brooke
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LaVilleauTady
- Posts: 524
- Joined: Sat Jan 27, 2007 6:52 pm
- Location: Southern Brittany (& Lancashire)
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Jenroy, I would take the compulsory insurance clause out of your contract. I strongly advise renters to take out their own travel insurance, but I would not go as far as making it a condition of rental. Do you actually ask them to provide you with proof of their insurance before you will confirm their booking?
On the second point, I would advise them at the time of their enquiry, you are happy to confirm that all appliances are working correctly. I would do this on the basis that neither the last renter or the cleaner/caretaker have reported any problems.
I don't think it is feasible to check every appliance between guests, but a good compromise is to send all renters a post stay questionnaire and include a section to report any problems/broken appliances, and provide a stamped addressed envelope for its return.
On the second point, I would advise them at the time of their enquiry, you are happy to confirm that all appliances are working correctly. I would do this on the basis that neither the last renter or the cleaner/caretaker have reported any problems.
I don't think it is feasible to check every appliance between guests, but a good compromise is to send all renters a post stay questionnaire and include a section to report any problems/broken appliances, and provide a stamped addressed envelope for its return.
have to agree with the others re: insurance - would take out those clauses.
I highly recommend travellers insurance, but, it is up to them whether or not they decide to take it out.
As for liability insurance, I honestly can't imagine having a rental property without it! It is really not expensive and, IMHO, totally necessary. I don't know the legality of just asking guests to waive your responsibility - no idea if that would hold up in court...but I would never want to risk it! Here in the US, at least, you could loose everything should someone sue and you had no liability coverage (including your personal residence!)
I highly recommend travellers insurance, but, it is up to them whether or not they decide to take it out.
As for liability insurance, I honestly can't imagine having a rental property without it! It is really not expensive and, IMHO, totally necessary. I don't know the legality of just asking guests to waive your responsibility - no idea if that would hold up in court...but I would never want to risk it! Here in the US, at least, you could loose everything should someone sue and you had no liability coverage (including your personal residence!)
Thank you all for your considered replies.
Just to set the record straight we do have 3rd party insurance for the villa and occupants, but the whole object of the clause was to transfer a sense of responsibility on to the guests.
I also take on board the necessity to use the clause as a guide rather than a dictate.
Having spoken to the manager she was opposed to the idea of having to test all appliances etc on the basis of time. The cost to clean the villa is €100 and this fairly represents the current time to clean and to ask for additional work would impinge on the time taken to clean. for I suspect even if I offered additional payment there is a mindset which says 'I have allocated 5 hours for the work and if I can slot the extra work I will do so, but I am only working 5 hours in total'.
All things considered the client has accepted the points and confirmed the booking without the need to change the current terms. However the new terms will reflect the views expressed and taken on board here.
Just to set the record straight we do have 3rd party insurance for the villa and occupants, but the whole object of the clause was to transfer a sense of responsibility on to the guests.
I also take on board the necessity to use the clause as a guide rather than a dictate.
Having spoken to the manager she was opposed to the idea of having to test all appliances etc on the basis of time. The cost to clean the villa is €100 and this fairly represents the current time to clean and to ask for additional work would impinge on the time taken to clean. for I suspect even if I offered additional payment there is a mindset which says 'I have allocated 5 hours for the work and if I can slot the extra work I will do so, but I am only working 5 hours in total'.
All things considered the client has accepted the points and confirmed the booking without the need to change the current terms. However the new terms will reflect the views expressed and taken on board here.
I think you need to distinguish between no longer working and broken by a guest.
Assuming that the TV was working when last used by the previous guest, it may fail the first time it is turned on by the new guest. How do you prove which guest was responsible and what would you do if you could? I certainly wouldn't try to charge a guest if an appliance simply broke down.
However, if your guest drops a heavy pan onto your ceramic hob and cracks it, and your cleaner can state that it was not cracked before their stay, or they tread on your PlayStation and smash it that's a different matter.
In those second cases there probably isn't a need to go around checking each changeover, and in the first I think you may be wasting your time.
We have a clause which states that "in making a booking you accept responsibility for any damage caused by you or any member of your party and agree to indemnify us in full for any loss that we may incur as a result".
That is probably enough to persuade the reasonable guest that they have to cough up if they break something major, and we have had guests who have volunteered for relatively minor damage and been politely thanked but declined.
Assuming that the TV was working when last used by the previous guest, it may fail the first time it is turned on by the new guest. How do you prove which guest was responsible and what would you do if you could? I certainly wouldn't try to charge a guest if an appliance simply broke down.
However, if your guest drops a heavy pan onto your ceramic hob and cracks it, and your cleaner can state that it was not cracked before their stay, or they tread on your PlayStation and smash it that's a different matter.
In those second cases there probably isn't a need to go around checking each changeover, and in the first I think you may be wasting your time.
We have a clause which states that "in making a booking you accept responsibility for any damage caused by you or any member of your party and agree to indemnify us in full for any loss that we may incur as a result".
That is probably enough to persuade the reasonable guest that they have to cough up if they break something major, and we have had guests who have volunteered for relatively minor damage and been politely thanked but declined.
Sadly, that wording may also be enough of a warning to persuade a non-reasonable guest (they do exist!) to make best endeavours to hide the damage and so lay the blame on the following guest.Windy wrote:.....
We have a clause which states that "in making a booking you accept responsibility for any damage caused by you or any member of your party and agree to indemnify us in full for any loss that we may incur as a result".
That is probably enough to persuade the reasonable guest that they have to cough up if they break something major, and we have had guests who have volunteered for relatively minor damage and been politely thanked but declined.
** Richard
PIMS: Holiday Rental Management system
They say we learn from our mistakes. That makes me a genius !
PIMS: Holiday Rental Management system
They say we learn from our mistakes. That makes me a genius !
Yup - that's true Richard but the same would be true with regard to a damage deposit.
It comes back to judgement and common sense again (IMHO), and I can't help feeling checking each appliance every changeover is a lot of work that may not ultimately have that much return.
Maybe we are fortunate but we haven't had that much damage across 3 lodges over 3 years so far.
I may wish I hadn't said that of course
It comes back to judgement and common sense again (IMHO), and I can't help feeling checking each appliance every changeover is a lot of work that may not ultimately have that much return.
Maybe we are fortunate but we haven't had that much damage across 3 lodges over 3 years so far.
I may wish I hadn't said that of course