Bad guests + Bad circumstances?

From the moment they step through the door your bookings become guests, and their experiences determine whether they ever come back.
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vrooje
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Bad guests + Bad circumstances?

Post by vrooje »

We have just had a group of 4 leave the property, and their visit did not go well.

First, they managed to get locked out of the second bedroom, but I'm not sure how they did that. They said they had trouble locking the door in the first place (getting the key to turn), and then they couldn't unlock it at all. For the last two weeks guests have told us that the lock was sticky, but they were always able to lock/unlock it. Our handyman had been by the week before these people arrived to fix the lock, and had verified that it worked without sticking. So unless our handyman lied (unlikely) or there was a significant change in the weather, the lock shouldn't have been worse than before!

In any case, they were locked out. They told us about it, but they called at 11 p.m. their time, and our usual staff of people were all either out of town or otherwise inaccessible. Since one of the guests had medication in the room, we advised that they call the gendarmes and have them get into the room one way or the other. We never heard from them after that, except just now, when we got an e-mail that they'd like a refund for the two days they were locked out of the room. (I didn't know it had been two days, and I don't know if that two days was before or after they called. It was the first I had heard of it.)

Their request for a partial refund was actually very reasonable, but it is complicated by my receiving a message from our property manager that the house was extremely messy, to the point where she says we should hold off returning the deposit until she can do a full assessment of the property.

So now I'm unsure what to do. I feel terribly that their visit was tainted by this, but with sending them a refund, paying to repair the door, and then paying extra cleaning fees, this will be an expensive client! Obviously the refund is appropriate and the cost of fixing the door is not relevant to them, but I can't help feeling as though the house was left the way it was as a sort of punishment, like "why should we be bothered to clean up when we couldn't even get to our suitcases for a day?"

What do people think? Should I ignore the state of the house when these people left? Does the fact that they had a bad experience excuse leaving the house in a bad way? What would you do, if it had been you?

Sorry all, I know this is a long post -- if you've made it this far you're doing very well! :)
Brooke
cromercrabholiday
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Post by cromercrabholiday »

Perhaps a silly question, but why have lockable internal doors when you have guests in residence? I can understand locking a spare bedroom door when you have underoccupancy, which we do, but we put the key away. Too late for your current problems.

I should hang fire until your property manager has had a chance to carry out a full assessment and then take stock. Apart from being "fair" for both sides, there is the question whether you want them back (or their friends/ acquaintances).

John
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roxytoo
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Post by roxytoo »

again too late for your current problems but I think I would have checked all was ok after the first phone call.(Maybe the nect day) As John said I would now wait to see the exact state of the property and then reflect?
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vrooje
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Post by vrooje »

Sorry, I should have specified:

The second bedroom is almost like a separate apartment. Its door is actually an exterior door, so it has to be lockable.

I agree, I should have called. In this case, I was working non-stop on several things at my department, so I asked my parents to take care of it and I don't think they called back...
Brooke
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Post by Paul Carmel »

I am with John and meishka, hold your horses until you know the full extent from your manager, Then sleep on it. From what you say they could just be trying it on. Lets face it, it wouldn't be a first.
Cheers
PC
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Alan Knighting
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Post by Alan Knighting »

Brooke,
What do people think? Should I ignore the state of the house when these people left? Does the fact that they had a bad experience excuse leaving the house in a bad way? What would you do, if it had been you?
I am absolutely sure you want to be fair to your guests but I am wondering if they want to be equally fair to you.

Yes, they clearly have something to complain about but that doesn't excuse them failing in their obligation to leave the house in a clean and tidy state.

A refund for them and a retention from the damages deposit for you appears to be "fair" resolution.

Alan
Clexane
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Post by Clexane »

I would definetly hold the deposit until you get a full inventory. With or without the door issue this would be the case. Any damage would be chargeable - within reason of course - I would not let the two issues mix.

Regarding the refund I would offer a partial refund based on a small reduction on the interpolated day rate - not the whole two days - as they did have use of the house. I would not charge for the door repairs or lock even though it may have been their fault - there is no way of knowing based on your email.

I am not sure that you can do much that will make them happy without great expense to you. I would do what I believe was fair rather than go the extra mile so as to entice them back - as based on your email you would not want them back.

Hope it all works out. Good luck
So you wanted a holiday home in france ...

www.villaemmanuelle.com
alexia s.
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Post by alexia s. »

This is probably nit-picking, but "they'd like a refund for the two days they were locked out of the room" - do they mean a refund of 50% of 2 days' rent? This means one day's rent - I'd probably give that and deduct for any serious cleaning problem.
BTW, applying grease helps the lock.
ST had a good article on letting problems on the web recently, including this:
"“We get wonderful tenants from the holiday company Rural Retreats, but about once a year somebody does this(=complain),� says Savage. “You know perfectly well that what they are complaining about is totally fatuous, but they try it on in the hope they’ll get some kind of compensation or get away without paying a bill. They go on and on and never give up. These are litigious times, remember. I suspect there are guidelines as to how to do it on the internet.� "
Best,
Alexia.
A-two
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Post by A-two »

Brooke,
No, don't ignore the mess. I would treat them as two completely separate issues.

1) You can deal with the possible refund because of the key problem now since you have all the facts (or as close as you're going to get short of calling the gendarmes).

2) Wait until you have all the facts from your manager regarding the mess, then respond as normal. (You don't know that leaving the house messy has anything to do with the key problem. They could have left it messy regardless.)

Then you can settle up.

Good Luck!
Waves from America
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vrooje
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Post by vrooje »

Joanna,

Good point! In this case it's actually easier to keep things separate, since there were two couples (friends) staying in the property, and they paid for their parts separately. So couple B is asking for a refund of two days' worth of their payment, which adds up to one day's rent for the whole house. But couple A paid the deposit, so they're the ones I'll be dealing with for that.

What I found sort of funny was that yesterday evening I received an e-mail asking again about the refund and then said that they want to return next May/June! I'm not sure if that's because they just want their money back and are trying to tempt me to keep them happy with the promise of more money, or if they really do want to return.

Either way, we're already booked for those months, and I'm glad! ;)
Brooke
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Alan Knighting
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Post by Alan Knighting »

Brooke,

If it is a dastardly plot to get you to settle it didn't work. If they genuinely want to return they will, at a different time.

I like win-win situations and you are in one.

Alan
alexia s.
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Post by alexia s. »

I think that a lot of people say that they want to return because they are afraid that they might not get their security deposit back.
Best,
Alexia.
Guest3
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Post by Guest3 »

Alexia, I would agree..it is a definite diversion tactic!
A-two
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Post by A-two »

vrooje wrote:In this case it's actually easier to keep things separate, since there were two couples (friends) staying in the property, and they paid for their parts separately. So couple B is asking for a refund of two days' worth of their payment, which adds up to one day's rent for the whole house. But couple A paid the deposit, so they're the ones I'll be dealing with for that.
Brooke,
If I understand you correctly, the couple who are asking for the refund are not the ones who signed the lease and paid the security deposit. If so, you owe them nothing, not even a reply to their request, since they are not your tenants and you have no contractual relationship with them. They are simply the guests of your tenants. Equally, you cannot hold them responsible for the mess, only the tenants who are named in the lease and signed the lease.

If both couples signed, then by accepting separate payments from them as well, my concern would be that you have created two separate tenancies, one with each couple. In the US, this is called a "Tenancy in Common", which means each person pays their own security deposit and negotiates separately with the Landlord over refunds etc.. That's not what you intended or what you want obviously, but you may have unwitingly created it, at least that's the view from here.

It seems that each couple also has that expectation, contacting you directly about their respective issues, security deposit and rent refund. The problem is that two couples may have differing opinions as to their individual entitlement, which would leave you with the impossible task of acting as judge and jury on what is a fair apportionment between the couples. Since you were not even there, that would be a terrible muddle to find yourself in!

I have to say that I would not want to accept payment from anyone who was not the named tenant on the lease. Usually that would be the head of the family, Mom or Dad, one half of a couple, or if 6 are sharing, one takes responsibility for the rest. How they share the payments amongst themselves is not my problem. All I care about is being able to point to one person and hold them responsibile for the house on behalf of all occupants. Then, I don't care who burnt the house down, I know whose **s is 100% on the line!

This is just my personal opinion of course, each to their own. (still can't find the Google spellcheck)
Waves from America
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Alan Knighting
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Post by Alan Knighting »

Joanna,

The Google spellchecker is part of Gmail. This is an extract of the Gmail Help system:-

"It's easy to check your spelling while composing Gmail messages. Here's how:
Click 'Check spelling' along the top of the message you're composing.
Click the misspelled word (highlighted in yellow) to see Gmail's suggestions for similar words.
Select a suggested word from the list to replace the misspelled word.
Click 'Done' along the top of the message to continue composing, or click 'Send' to send your message.
Gmail's spellchecker operates in the same language you've selected for your interface. If you compose a message in a language other than your interface language, you can check the spelling of that message, too -- just click the arrow next to 'Check spelling' to select the appropriate language.

This feature is not available in Gmail's basic HTML view."


Alan
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