Reserving Refusal to Rent -- explicit or not?

[debk]

A number of threads have commented on the fact that we, as owners, have the final say in renting... or not... to a potential guest.

Does anyone have this wording right on their website?

Something like "we refuse the right to rent to anyone that we believe will not treat our home with the care that it deserves..." only more succinct.

I'm asking because an inquirer recently got a tad irritating and when I sent him a list of other nearby vacation rentals, he wrote back with "Are you saying that you are refusing to rent to me??!"

Which made me think about the legality of such.

I realize this will vary from country to country. Just curious what the general thoughts are in laymyhat-land...

(We have 3 normal rental homes in Seattle and I know that non-discriminatory laws are pretty thick there. On the other hand, during Euro2004 here in Portugal, accommodation providers were very up-front in stating regulations for not renting to same-sex groups, anyone under the age of 25, etc.)

Boa noite!
debk
www.VisitingPortugal.com

[alexia s.]

I now explicitly refuse to rent the 3 properties in our Olive Mill together in high season, explaining that it is too much trouble! I have also explicitly refused to rent to a group with too many young boys/men in it; this led to about 4 repeated requests from this group but they eventually went somewhere else (I recommended another place). I like to have gay men & women, because they generally look after the place better, so that's not an issue. Can't think of anyone else I'd bother about. Maybe a Nigerian clergyman....oh! and medical students, of course! (But everybody knows that, don't they? Even the ST article referred to their reputation for "trashing" places.)

[Alan Knighting]

Debk,

The general answer is that you have an implicit right to decide to whom you will rent and not rent; you do not need to reserve your right. Making a choice by exercising judgement is discrimination in its true sense.

It is all to do with the general rules of offer and acceptance. Your advertising invites enquiries, that's all. An enquiry may turn into an offer and it is up to you, the owner, to accept or reject the offer.

In order that you may avoid any ridiculous claims of being prejudiced against one minority group or another it is usually best not to give any reason for your rejection - you don't have to you know.

Alan

[debk]

Alexia - Thank you for the med student tip. I actually did not know about their reputation... though students in general would give me pause. (Medically speaking, some of my best guests have been female doctors. They have left the place cleaner than an operating room.)

Alan - Thank you for the reassurance. That is exactly what I was hoping to hear.

I suppose I shouldn't invite trouble by explicitly stating this on the website... ? I was so put off by the potential guest's aggressiveness that I found myself wanting to send him to my website and read it for himself in black&white: "we retain the right..."

I really like the guests who realize that this is a two-way street: they are sending money to strangers hoping to not end up in a dive at check-in... we are giving stangers the keys to our private homes hoping to not end up with a diaster at check-out.

So far, so good!
debk
www.VisitingPortugal.com

[paolo]

Having been to university with med students I would never knowingly rent to them. They work hard and play harder.

[alexia s.]

Paolo,
That is the basis for my reasoning ("been to university with med students"). In fact, having been to university with med students I would never see a doctor unless my life depended on emergency surgical intervention or the prescription of life-saving drugs.
This applies to male med students/doctors. I never saw enough of the female ones, unfortunately, to generalise.

[A-two]

Something like "we refuse the right to rent to anyone that we believe will not treat our home with the care that it deserves..." only more succinct.

Deb,
I know nothing about Portugal, but I would definitely check it out before putting anything in writing. You're just asking for it to be challenged.

The legal position in the USA is that the owner has the right to decide whether or not to rent, but having decided to do so, he does not then have carte blanche to discriminate as he sees fit. Neither can he reserve any such right. It's illegal. Federal Law prohibits discrimination on the basis of race, religion, color, national origin, age, gender, handicap, sexual preference. The terms under which you offer your house must be the same for everyone and the hoops you make them jump through to "pre-qualify" them must be the same. Anything else is discrimination. You do have more control over how they use the house, "no parties", "no pets", "no noise ever" is all allowed. What you cannot do is say, "no med students", or single out any other group for discrimination, or you could be in big trouble.

The Federal Statutes date back to the 1890s, with Amendments in the 1960s, 70s and 80s, as well individual States may have added their own laws on top of that. New York certainly has toughened things up to protect single Moms and children. It is now illegal in NY to run any kind of ad saying, "no children". Some of these laws do have exceptions, for example, a property in a retirement village would not have to accept children, but that's about the only exception I know to that particular statute.

If anyone with disabilities inquiries, I don't refuse to offer them my house, even though I know the bathroom door is not wide enough to be wheelchair accessible. That is for them to decide for themselves whether or not my house is suitable, it's not for me to make that judgement on their behalf. That's the law.

Let me just add a bit of trivia that will shock some of you Lay My Hatters. The first US Discrimination Law in the 1890s was the one related to race. Not surprisingly, women were not treated equally to men at that time either, and were not allowed to own property. Of course that too was changed, but not many people know that it took another 80 years or so for women to earn the right to own their own property. That's right, women were not allowed to own property in the USA until 1974. How do you feel about that girls? Would you stand up and defend that right now? I thought so.

Even as I write, Rosa Parks is lying is State, the black woman who sparked the Civil Rights Movement after refusing to give up her bus seat to a white man. She was jailed for it. She was 96 yrs old when she died this week. I may not be black, but I am certainly in a minority group in this country for reasons of national origin, and thankful for the very laws that some seek to ridicule.

Please, let's not trivialize these issues, or work at ways to get around them on a public message board. Let's find ways to get what we want (good tenants) without undermining the basic human right to be treated equally.

[debk]

Hi, Joanna - Well said.

Although selecting the right guests for our properties is a big part of what I try to do -- so that they are happy with what is often a "once-in-a-lifetime" vacation and so that we are happy, too -- I can see that putting something in writing might encourage some types to challenge the whole idea.

Thank you for your thoughtful comments.
debk

[Alan Knighting]

Joanna,

You have very succinctly reinforced what I said at the very beginning. If you are unhappy about an enquiry simply refuse to accept a booking - do not give a reason. In the present political climate giving reasons is inviting argumentative responses from inhabitants of sub-cultures who would not be welcome on your premises.

Not having the vote in the USA on the grounds of being a woman was not related to race; it was related to gender. In the USA nearly everyone is subject to racial prejudice (it's not discrimination, it's prejudice); after all, once the indigenous population had been annihilated, the country became based solely on an immigrant population.

You're quite right. These issues are not trivial, they're fundamental. As the owner I will decide who occupies my premises. No matter how much the minorities try to twist the law I will find a way of retaining my rights. Telling me who will occupy my property is no different from telling me who will come to dinner tonight, and you know what my answer to that is.

"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it" appears to be something which has gone from the American ethic. Is that because there is nobody left in the USA with the moral fortitude to defend it?

Alan

[alexia s.]

Yes, I can't imagine saying "I don't like medical students", or "We never accept illiterate Oxford book sellers". When the availability calendar shows availability, though, it is difficult to say "no" & avoid long exchanges. Alan do you just reply with a one word "no" when they ask "why"?

[Alan Knighting]

Yes, I can't imagine saying "I don't like medical students", or "We never accept illiterate Oxford book sellers". When the availability calendar shows availability, though, it is difficult to say "no" & avoid long exchanges. Alan do you just reply with a one word "no" when they ask "why"?

Come on Alexia don't tease me, as a fellow ex-lawyer you know there is always a much longer-winded version of the word "NO".

Alan

[paolo]

Come on Alexia don't tease me, as a fellow ex-lawyer you know there is always a much longer-winded version of the word "NO".

This makes me think of my ex-solicitor - I was paying good money for his advice, and whenever I asked him what I should do he would say "You'll have to take a view on that".

[A-two]

Joanna,

You have very succinctly reinforced what I said at the very beginning.

I have done no such thing. On the contrary, you have completely missed the point. I could not wish to distance myself further from your derogatory comments on this thread, which I find offensive. So I'll stop here.

[Alan Knighting]

Joanna,

If I was being derogatory at all I was being derogatory of a system, most certainly not of you.

My point was, and is; if you are worried about the consequences of giving a reason for making a decision then don't give a reason. You simply don't have to.

Similarly, if you don't agree with somebody you don't have to argue. You can remain silent.

Alan

[alexia s.]

Joanna,
I certainly didn't think that Alan was criticising you in any way. Please don't take offence.