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Anyone out there in Northern Cyprus?
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kg1



Joined: 05 Jan 2010
Posts: 2347

PostPosted: Sun Aug 15, 2010 6:57 am    Post subject: Anyone out there in Northern Cyprus? Reply with quote

Although we have a flat in Kyrenia we don't let it out, just use it for holidays. It would be nice to communicate with anyone out there or in the UK who also has property out there. We love it there & it's a shame it's not promoted more. On the other hand if everyone knew about it it would get spoilt!!
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alexyflemming



Joined: 16 Apr 2015
Posts: 5

PostPosted: Thu Apr 16, 2015 8:58 am    Post subject: Northern Cyprus is de facto recognized everywhere. Reply with quote

I have a flat in Northern Cyprus.

I am happy that Northern Cyprus is de facto recognized everywhere.

THE LAWS OF NORTHERN CYPRUS ARE ACCEPTED IN EUROPE:
(Northern Cyprus :=: Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus)

Not only the "TRNC Immovable Property Commission (and its related laws)" but also "ALL THE LAWS OF TURKISH REPUBLIC OF NORTHERN CYPRUS" WAS ACCEPTED ON BEHALF OF EUROPE (European Court of Human Rights; ECtHR).
ECtHR Decision 02.07.2013, App. nos. 9130/09 and 9143/09; Pavlides v. Turkey; Georgakis v. Turkey

[url]http://hudoc.echr.coe.int/sites/eng/Pages/search.aspx#{"fulltext":["Pavlides"],"documentcollectionid2":["CASELAW"],"itemid":["001-122907"]}[/url]

ECtHR: "...notwithstanding the lack of international recognition of the regime in the northern area, a de facto recognition of its acts may be rendered necessary for practical purposes. Thus, THE ADOPTION BY THE AUTHORITIES OF THE "TRNC" OF CIVIL, ADMINISTRATIVE OR CRIMINAL LAW MEASURES, AND THEIR APPLICATION OR ENFORCEMENT WITHIN THAT TERRITORY, may be regarded as having a legal basis in domestic law for the purposes of the Convention".

Note: In the related ECtHR's decision above, the case application of the Greek Cypriot was IMMEDIATELY REJECTED; i.e., his application was found INADMISSABLE.
That is to say, he was expelled by ECtHR just at the beginning; therefore, his case was not handled (no sessions were held) by ECtHR at all.
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alexyflemming



Joined: 16 Apr 2015
Posts: 5

PostPosted: Thu Apr 16, 2015 8:59 am    Post subject: Northern Cyprus is de facto recognized everywhere. Reply with quote

I have a flat in Northern Cyprus.

I am happy that Northern Cyprus is de facto recognized everywhere:

USA's FEDERAL COURT: "NORTHERN CYPRUS IS A DEMOCRATIC REPUBLIC"
USA's FEDERAL COURT and USA's COURT OF APPEALS REJECTED GREEK CYPRIOTS

==1. USA's FEDERAL COURT REJECTED GREEK CYPRIOTS: THE TOUMAZOU CASE-LAW==
"..Greek Cypriots CANNOT CLAIM that the government in control of Northern Cyprus gave their homes to Turkish Cypriots....
Although the United States does not recognize it as a state, the TRNC purportedly operates as a DEMOCRATIC REPUBLIC with a president, prime minister, legislature and judiciary...
TRNC is NOT VULNERABLE to a lawsuit in Washington"

The news of the Court Decision (13.10.2014): http://www.courthousenews.com/2014/10/13/72392.htm
Page of the Court case: http://dockets.justia.com/docket/district-of-columbia/dcdce/1:2009cv01967/139002
Decision of the Court: http://docs.justia.com/cases/federal/district-courts/district-of-columbia/dcdce/1:2009cv01967/139002/53

TOUMAZOU et al v. REPUBLIC OF TURKEY et al
Defendant: REPUBLIC OF TURKEY and TURKISH REPUBLIC OF NORTHERN CYPRUS
Case Filed: 19.10.2009
Decision Date: 09.10.2014

==2. USA's FEDERAL COURT REJECTED GREEK CYPRIOTS: LATCHFORD DECISION ==
LATCHFORD et al v. TURKISH REPUBLIC OF NORTHERN CYPRUS et al
Defendant: TURKISH REPUBLIC OF NORTHERN CYPRUS, HSBC HOLDINGS PLC and HSBC BANK USA, N.A.
http://dockets.justia.com/docket/district-of-columbia/dcdce/1:2012cv00846/154428
http://docs.justia.com/cases/federal/district-courts/district-of-columbia/dcdce/1:2012cv00846/154428/22
Case Filed: 24.05.2012
Decision Date: 31.10.2014

http://docs.justia.com/cases/federal/district-courts/district-of-columbia/dcdce/1:2012cv00846/154428/22

MEMORANDUM OPINION AND ORDER
On September 30, 2014, the Court dismissed Toumazou v. Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus, Civil Action No. 09-1967, WITH PREJUDICE, WHICH IS A RELATED CASE "INDISTINGUISHABLE BY FACTS OR LAW". See Plaintiff's Notice of Appeal at 1 n. 1, Toumazou v. Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus, No. 09-cv-1967 (D.D.C. Oct. 29, 2014), ECF No. 55. The Court therefore ORDERED PLAINTIFF TO SHOW CAUSE IN WRITING WHY THIS CASE SHOULD NOT BE DISMISSED WITH PREJUDICE TO THE COURT'S SEPTEMBER 30, 2014 Order and October 9, 2014 Opinion in Toumazou. PLAINTIFF FAILED TO RESPOND. It is hereby ORDERED THAT THE COMPLAINT is DISMISSED with prejudice. The Clerk of Court SHALL REMOVE THIS CASE FROM THE DOCKET OF THIS COURT. This is a final appealable Order.

==3. USA's FEDERAL COURT REJECTED GREEK CYPRIOTS: FIOURIS AND OTHER 96 GREEK CYPRIOTS DECISION ==
Fiouris v. Turkish Cypriot Community, Civil Action No. 2010-1225 (D.C. 2014)
Defendant: TURKISH CYPRIOT COMMUNITY, HSBC HOLDİNG, PLC ve HSBC BANK ABD, N.A.
http://dockets.justia.com/docket/district-of-columbia/dcdce/1:2010cv01225/143132/
http://law.justia.com/cases/federal/district-courts/district-of-columbia/dcdce/1:2010cv01225/143132/22/
Case Filed: 20.07.2010
Decision Date: 31.10.2014

On September 30, 2014, the Court dismissed Toumazou v. Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus, Civil Action No. 09-1967, with prejudice, which is a related case "indistinguishable by facts or law." See Plaintiff's Notice of Appeal at 1 n.1, Toumazou v. Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus, No. 09-cv-1967(D.D.C. Oct.29, 2014), ECF No. 55. The Court therefore ordered plaintiff to show cause in writing why this case should not be dismissed with prejudice pursuant to the Court's September 30,2014 Order and October 9, 2014 Opinion in Toumazou. Plaintiff failed to respond. It is hereby ORDERED that the complaint is DISMISSED with prejudice. The Clerk of Court shall remove this case from the docket of this Court. This is a final appealable Order.

https://www.docketalarm.com/cases/District_Of_Columbia_District_Court/1--10-cv-01225/FIOURIS_et_al_v._TURKISH_CYPRIOT_COMMUNITY_et_al/22/
http://www.law360.com/cases/4db72cb6c0ce161243000002
https://www.courtlistener.com/opinion/2747346/fiouris-v-turkish-cypriot-community/

One can see the list of 96 Greek Cypriots who lost their cases against TURKISH CYPRIOT COMMUNITY in the following link as well:
http://leagle.com/decision/In%20FDCO%2020141103575/FIOURIS%20v.%20TURKISH%20CYPRIOT%20COMMUNITY

== 4. USA's COURT OF APPEALS REJECTED GREEK CYPRIOTS ==
USA APPEALS COURT: "The TOUMAZOU decision about NORTHERN CYPRUS is valid (a case-law) NOT ONLY in USA but also in ALL COUNTRIES"
USA Court of Appeals: Case 14-4449
Look at page 10 below:
http://blogs.reuters.com/alison-frankel/files/2014/12/sokolowvpa-pamotiontostay.pdf

Toumazou v. Turkish Republic of N. Cyprus, No. 09-cv-1967, 2014 U.S. Dist. LEXIS 143535, at *11 (D.D.C. Oct. 9, 2014) (holding that the TURKISH REPUBLIC OF NORTHERN CYPRUS "IS 'AT HOME' IN NORTHERN CYPRUS, AS ITS NAME SUGGESTS, NOT IN THE DISTRICT OF COLOMBIA")

The same decision can be seen on page 17 below:
http://online.wsj.com/public/resources/documents/PLOPAbrief.pdf
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alexyflemming



Joined: 16 Apr 2015
Posts: 5

PostPosted: Thu Apr 16, 2015 9:01 am    Post subject: Northern Cyprus is de facto recognized everywhere. Reply with quote

I have a flat in Northern Cyprus.

I am happy that the road map for my kid is very determined.
He will graduate from a Northern Cyprus university, and then he will start MIT in US.

(GREEK, SOUTH) CYPRUS HAS PALED IN COMPARISON WITH NORTHERN CYPRUS IN EDUCATION

NORTHERN CYPRUS PARTICIPATED INTERNATIONAL ROBOCUP CHAMPIONSHIPS IN BRAZIL IN 2013 AND 2014:
(Greek) Cyprus could not be able to participate to the championship since it is very lag behind of Northern Cyprus in education!
http://robocupssl.cpe.ku.ac.th/teams:teams
http://robotics.neu.edu.tr/

NORTHERN CYPRUS PARTICIPATED 2014 SOLAR CHALLANGE IN SOUTH AFRICA where solar-energized cars compete and race.
(Greek) Cyprus could not be able to participate to the championship since it is very lag behind of Northern Cyprus in education!
Please see the flag of Northern Cyprus below:
http://www.solarchallenge.org.za/final-results/
http://www.solarchallenge.org.za/?cat=2

NORTHERN CYPRUS has supercomputers and therefore PARTICIPATES AND CONTRIBUTES CERN EXPERIMENTS (HIGGS BOSON ETC.) IN SWITZERLAND.
http://duyuru.neu.edu.tr/?p=56172
(Greek) Cyprus could not be able to participate to the experiments since since it is very lag behind of Northern Cyprus in education!

There is a medicine faculty in Northern Cyprus whereas in (Greek, South) Cyprus it is still under construction!

(Greek, South) Cyprus: TOURISM
NORTHERN CYPRUS: TOURISM + EDUCATION

2013: 63,765 university students from 114 countries
2014: 70,004 university students from 129 countries (15,210 Turkish Cypriots + 36,148 Turkey's Turks + 18,646 other countries)

1. Near East University 2. Eastern Mediterranean University 3. Cyprus International University 4. European University of Lefke 5. Girne American University 6. University of Mediterranean Karpasia 7. University of Kyrenia 8. METU-Northern Cyprus 9. ITU-Northern Cyprus

Northern Cyprus is NUMBER 1 IN THE WORLD in "university students/total population" ratio.
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Casscat



Joined: 05 Jul 2014
Posts: 2664
Location: Andalucía

PostPosted: Thu Apr 16, 2015 9:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi alexyflemming. You do realise that this is a forum for holiday home owners don't you? No one here has queried the status of Northern Cyprus nor the quality of the education provided to its children.
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Nemo



Joined: 14 Aug 2008
Posts: 7061
Location: Norfolk

PostPosted: Thu Apr 16, 2015 9:50 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

He clearly has an axe to grind. I'd pm Paolo, Casscat or someone if you have a moment? I'm away and my message box is full!
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AndrewH



Joined: 12 Sep 2013
Posts: 1452
Location: Kefalonia, Greece

PostPosted: Thu Apr 16, 2015 10:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wow, Alexyflemming, I don't think I could take that all in in one go or even more than one go! Welcome to the forum.

ECtHR: "...notwithstanding the lack of international recognition of the regime in the northern area, a de facto recognition of its acts may be rendered necessary for practical purposes."

It seems like America and the European Union (collectively) accept the existence of the Turkish Republic of Northern Cyprus for all practical purposes, but not officially, so as not to offend the Greek republic in the south of the island.

What I think might be interesting for folks on this forum to know is what is the up to date position regarding the ownership of land (including the buildings on it, of course)? I have heard that, buying land which has long been in Turkish Cypriot ownership is safe. But when a piece land is in the ownership of Greek Cypriots, who were forced to move away following partition, what is the current position for a buyer there?
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alexyflemming



Joined: 16 Apr 2015
Posts: 5

PostPosted: Thu Apr 16, 2015 11:08 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

AndrewH wrote:
When a piece land is in the ownership of Greek Cypriots, who were forced to move away following partition, what is the current position for a buyer there?


1. The Population Exchange Agreement between Greek Cypriots and Turkish Cypriots was signed in 1975 under the auspieces of United Nations.
a. http://www.un.org/Docs/journal/asp/ws.asp?m=s/11789
b. Murat Metin Hakki (2007). The Cyprus Issue: A Documentary History, 1878-2006. I.B.Tauris. pp. 194–195. ISBN 978-1-84511-392-6.

2. Northern Cyprus has the right to expropriate the properties in Northern Cyprus for the sake of making religious places, roads, parks, schools etc. with nearly 1/10 of its real value; just like any other country in the world.
659/6144 Greek Cypriot properties were expropriated by the Government of Northern Cyprus and this is accepted in European Court of Human Rights.
http://tamk.gov.ct.tr/

6144 - 659 properties will also be expropriated by the Government of Northern Cyprus. There is no time limit to epropriate the remaining ones.

3. USA's Federal Court: ""..Greek Cypriots CANNOT CLAIM that the government in control of Northern Cyprus gave their homes to Turkish Cypriots.... "
http://www.courthousenews.com/2014/10/13/72392.htm

So, to sum up, if you face any problem for buying a piece land that is in the ownership of Greek Cypriots, who were exchanged in 1975, then the Government of Northern Cyprus can easily expropriate the related land and transfer the ownership to you.
That is to say, you at most pay an additional 1/10 of the properties real value besides the one you paid in the first place.
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Zorba



Joined: 11 Jul 2012
Posts: 200
Location: Agios Dimitrianos Paphos Cyprus

PostPosted: Thu Apr 16, 2015 12:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Forgive me, but I don't see that Alexyflemming as a holiday home owner and is just using this forum to air his grievances.

My wife and I live in the Republic of Cyprus which is a state in the EU.

Northern Cyprus or TRNC is not an internationally recognised state only a local regime propped up by the militarily powerful country of Turkey. You cannot fly to the TRNC airport of Ercan without stopping first at a Turkish airport. All phone calls are routed through Turkey as are all imports.

That said I have family in the TRNC who live there very happily and we visit twice a year. It is a beautiful part of Cyprus and about 20 years behind the republic, which for a tourist is appealing. The Statelet is not overly Muslim although local Turkish Cypriots often complain of "gerrymandering" by Pres Erdogan to fix the election there.

It is unfortunate that the population on both side are very pleasant people, but because of some very entrenched positions of a mostly religious divide a solution to reunification cannot be found. Both sides are very petty with prohibitions on trade and visiting car tax (called laughably insurance).

There are problems with buying property on both sides of the fortified divide - too complex for this forum, but I would warn anyone contemplating property purchase to be very careful. There are 4 forums for UK expats in the South and at least one in the North, all have a host of advice.

As for tourists both sides are good holiday destinations and there is no charge to cross over on foot. The biggest danger is meeting Alexy and his ownership files. Very Happy

For those more criminally minded the EU has no extradition treaty with TRNC and it is a favourite bolt hole for those wanted by the British Police. Their undoing is often due to the Lidl supermarket that is only available in the south. Wanted persons are very often arrested as they cross the checkpoint in search of Lidl bargains. Very Happy
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AndrewH



Joined: 12 Sep 2013
Posts: 1452
Location: Kefalonia, Greece

PostPosted: Thu Apr 16, 2015 2:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zorba. Excellent even-handed resume.
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kg1



Joined: 05 Jan 2010
Posts: 2347

PostPosted: Thu Apr 16, 2015 3:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Crumbs - I didn't know what I had started back in 2010 did I ?

Zorba - a very even handed post, thank you, from one who knows the TRNC well - hence my forum name. I'm sure if they got rid of the politicians the people on both side would work in harmony.

AndrewH - if you need advice on purchasing PM me.

If anyone is thinking of visiting Northern Cyprus I would be glad to give help & advice.
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alexyflemming



Joined: 16 Apr 2015
Posts: 5

PostPosted: Fri Apr 17, 2015 8:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Zorba wrote:
The biggest danger is meeting Alexy and his ownership files. Very Happy


Dear Zorba,

I have no intention to be side with either of the sides in the issue.

I only presented the current situation of the legal framework from which those who have properties in either of the divide can benefit considerably.

The Brits having trouble against Greek Cypriots can make use of not only the decisions of USA's Federal Courts but also the European Court of Human Rights:

Previously, Greek Cypriots(' request to return back to Northern Cyprus) were rejected by European Court of Human Rights (ECtHR):
ECtHR: “The places from where Greek Cypriots migrated in Northern Cyprus are not their homes ANYMORE since the Greek Cypriots LIVED ALMOST ALL OF THEIR LIVES IN ANOTHER PLACES AND THEY HAVE NO CONCRETE AND PERSISTING LINKS TO THE PROPERTIES THEY CLAIMED. Furthermore, that's why, the Greek Cypriots have no right to return Northern Cyprus. "
(Tasos Asproftas: [Application no. 16079/90] and Marianna Petrakidou [Application no. 16081/90]).
[url]http://hudoc.echr.coe.int/sites/eng/Pages/search.aspx#{"fulltext":["Asproftas"],"documentcollectionid2":["CASELAW"],"item":["001-98684"]}[/url]
[url]http://hudoc.echr.coe.int/sites/eng/Pages/search.aspx#{"fulltext":["Petrakidou"],"documentcollectionid2":["CASELAW"],"itemid":["001-98688"]}[/url]

(Greek Cypriots objected to the ECtHR's no-return-back-for-Greek-Cypriots decision and take the case to the Grand Chamber; In 18.10.2010, the Referral Request of Greek
Cypriots was rejected in ECtHR Grand Chamber as well, and hence, THE DECISON OF ECtHR THAT THE GREEK CYPRIOTS CANNOT RETURN BACK TO THE NORTH WAS FINALIZED:
ECtHR Grand Chamber rejected Greek Cypriots and kicked their @sses (Case Law: Appeals Requests of Asproftas and Petrakidou)
http://www.mediafire.com/view/?izlctlan0vm7le9 (ECtHR APPEALS DECISONS)
Cases referred to the ECtHR Grand Chamber
Referrals accepted (page 1)
.....................................................
Requests for referral rejected (Those to whom ECtHE kicked their @sses) (page 1)
.....................................................
Asproftas v. Turkey and Petrakidou v. Turkey (nos. 16079/90 and 16081/90); judgment of 27.05.2010 (page 3) http://www.mediafire.com/view/?izlctlan0vm7le9

TO SUM UP:
THE FACT THAT GREEK CYPRIOTS DO NOT HAVE RIGHT TO RETURN TO THE NORTH BECAME CASE-LAW IN EUROPE (2010) AND IN AMERICA (2014).

That is to say, the Greek Cypriots who make an application about a property in Northern Cyprus will always be kicked to their @sses not only in Europe but also in USA.

I can help those who face to face with any legal issue against Greek Cypriots. Never hesitate to notify me.
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PW in Polemi



Joined: 21 Oct 2012
Posts: 1781
Location: A village in Paphos, Cyprus

PostPosted: Fri Apr 17, 2015 8:25 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Where's your holiday accommodation, Alexyflemming? Care to post a link to your website?

The reason I ask is we have friends over here on holiday at the moment and they are thinking of returning again but splitting their holiday between TRNC and the Republic of Cyprus.
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LaderaCottage



Joined: 10 Jun 2015
Posts: 48
Location: Kyrenia N Cyprus

PostPosted: Mon Jan 11, 2016 9:28 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Gosh, been lurking on this forum for a long time, and came across this thread this morning that I found so amusing! Zorba you did not mention "Fugitives Cafe" between the TC and GC checkpoints going south! So actually you can check out of the North have a coffee in the UN buffer zone and then go back to the North to get a fresh 90 days, without ever crossing to the South! But seriously folks, the North is a very safe place, and I have lived here now for almost 4 years. Crime here is virtually unheard of.

Anyway to get to the point, I do have a rental property in North Cyprus. It was British owned pre 1974 and so has a clean foreign title deed, and is one of the oldest properties in the village of Ozankoy (Kazafani) which is just 10 minutes from the picturesque Kyrenia harbour and just below the stunning Bellapais Abbey. A very unique property too, with a wealth of history and charm.

It would be nice to hook up with someone in the South to do two centre holidays and enable guests to see this entire lovely island. One of my favourite spots are the Troodos Mountains in the South, as I am not one for packed tourist beach resorts, which is why I guess I like living North side, whilst I do cross to the South several times per month in my car. Lidl yes!

OK well I just thought I would introduce myself on here. My property is on OD, TA, AB all the usual suspects, and you can also find me here:

www.facebook.com/laderacottage and
www.laderacottage.com (albeit I could do with some help on that).

Greetings from North Cyprus Laughing
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roxytoo



Joined: 03 Feb 2005
Posts: 1646
Location: Spain Costa Blanca

PostPosted: Mon Jan 11, 2016 9:41 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

welcome! Your property looks stunning! I am very envious. I spent most of my childhood in Famagusta until the coup in 1974 so know the area well. We spent 2 months near Camlibel 2 years ago dog sitting for a friend, such a change for me to live in the North, I loved it! I'm sure your property does very well
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