Pool alarm - do I let guests disable it?

[KathyG]

We've just installed an AquaSensor Premium alarm on the pool which operates using magnets. We've attached one of them on a long line to the top of a pole so that kids can't get to it. To disable it completely, you need to use 2 magnets.

Now, do I make them use just the one magnet which means they have to pass it over the alarm to allow them to swim or should I give them the 2nd magnet which would allow them to disable it completely and not have it monitoring the pool at all? I think if I was on holiday somewhere I would prefer the freedom of jumping in the pool whenever I wanted rather than having to temporarily disable it every time. It resets itself after 12 minutes of inactivity.

More to the point, is it legal to let them completely disable it? Anyone know?

Knowing how guests lose/break/damage anything and everything I'm reluctant to give them access to the 2nd magnet.

Does anyone else have this type of alarm?

[la vache!]

I don't know it at all - mine is very simple and has to be disabled by guests before they enter the pool by tapping a security code, then it re-sets itself automatically after they leave.
If you allow them to disable the pool completely and there is a drowning, I would think that you will be liable for allowing the guests to completely disable the alarm. Can you give the second magnet to your housekeeper?

[ccazes]

Our pool alarm is key operated and the renter has to turn the key to switch it on/off. It is an "approved alarm" so I would think that giving the renters the possibility of completely turning off the alarm is not something that leaves you liable in case of accident.

Not wanting to leave them the second magnet in case they lose it is another matter....

[KathyG]

OK decision made then. Yes we can leave the 2nd magnet in the pool house that only the changeover people have access to. And the point about us maybe being liable should there be a drowning makes the decision final I think, even though this is an 'approved' alarm and has the facility to be turned off completely so maybe we wouldn't be liable after all.........

Thanks all

[Jimbo]

is it legal to let them completely disable it? Anyone know?

We have the Aquasensor alarms. My understanding (but I may be wrong - not sure how I know this?) is that it's OK to fully disable the alarms if all the guests agree. However, such an 'agreement' - presumably verbal - would be fraught with hazard for the owner if anything was to go wrong, so we've never implemented it.

Temporarily disabling the alarm by running a magnet over the alarm's keypad before swimming (and to silence the alarm if a guest accidentally triggers it) doesn't seem (to me) to be a particularly onerous task.

Jim

[domino]

Hi Jim
I cant see how it would be OK to 'agree to disable' the alarm as its supposed to provide security for the pool even if its the neighbours child falling in.
I've been involved with the care of a child who fell in the neighbours pond, she survived the 'drowning' but was brain damaged. Not nice for all concerned.
As said on another thread we found our pool alarm would go off in wind, rain and for no apparent reason. I hope the newer versions are more trustworthy. I used to worry about going to the supermarket in case the darn thing went off ( for no reason) and no one was around to turn it off.

[KathyG]

Well I've got the answer from our ex-legal eagle:

"When the pool security regulations came into force in France I lived on-site in France, I had holiday cottages and I had a pool. Being a lawyer it was in my nature to read the law and the subsequent AFNOR Regulations so, I did.

Without going into great detail the French law requires all owners of private pools to install at least one of four mutually exclusive security systems. The chosen system(s) must be live at all times except when the pool is actively in use or is being actively maintained (e.g. being cleaned).

You – “More to the point, is it legal to let them completely disable it?” No, it is not.

LV – “If you allow them to disable the pool completely and there is a drowning, I would think that you will be liable for allowing the guests to completely disable the alarm.” Right.

Ccazes – “It is an "approved alarm" so I would think that giving the renters the possibility of completely turning off the alarm is not something that leaves you liable in case of accident.” Wrong.

You – “And the point about us maybe being liable should there be a drowning makes the decision final I think, even though this is an 'approved' alarm and has the facility to be turned off completely so maybe we wouldn't be liable after all.........” Wrong."


and also...

"Jimbo – “My understanding (but I may be wrong - not sure how I know this?) is that it's OK to fully disable the alarms if all the guests agree.”

That is completely wrong. The French law on pool security is absolute and does not allow for any person or group of people to opt out of it.

BTW One should tread very carefully when it comes to complying with this French law, the penalty for getting it wrong (and being found out) is a fine of up to 75,000€. That's a fine imposed for not complying with the law but that's not necessarily where the story ends. If the drowning of a child occurs there's also the probability of the owner being sued for damages by the parents and the potential amounts involved are another ball-game altogether."


Thanks Alan, a great help.

[ccazes]

That's a very interesting response.
What I don't understand is if I buy a pool alarm that is accredited and there only is an on/off switch that means the guests have to put it off to go in the pool. So if they do not put it back on then someone drowns it's still my fault?
Shouldn't an accredited pool alarm then HAVE to have an automatic reset function so it comes back on after the pool has not been in use lets say for 10 minutes?

[la vache!]

Shouldn't an accredited pool alarm then HAVE to have an automatic reset function so it comes back on after the pool has not been in use lets say for 10 minutes?

That's what mine has - after 9 minutes of non activity in the water it re-sets itself. The guests would never remember to re-set it themselves.

[KathyG]

What I don't understand is if I buy a pool alarm that is accredited and there only is an on/off switch that means the guests have to put it off to go in the pool. So if they do not put it back on then someone drowns it's still my fault?
Shouldn't an accredited pool alarm then HAVE to have an automatic reset function so it comes back on after the pool has not been in use lets say for 10 minutes?

Are there some accredited ones that don't have that function Ccazes? Seems crazy if there are.

[ccazes]

What I don't understand is if I buy a pool alarm that is accredited and there only is an on/off switch that means the guests have to put it off to go in the pool. So if they do not put it back on then someone drowns it's still my fault?
Shouldn't an accredited pool alarm then HAVE to have an automatic reset function so it comes back on after the pool has not been in use lets say for 10 minutes?

Are there some accredited ones that don't have that function Ccazes? Seems crazy if there are.

Yes unfortunately there are. I wanted to replace mine and had looked in Castorama where they have a battery operated version with a key to switch it on and off. I thought that would be enough. They assured me that they only sell accredited alarms. I will have to dig deeper.....
Maybe as an off-site owner it is just not a reasonable choice given the law.
LV - could you tell me the name of your pool alarm if you find it simple and effective?

[la vache!]

LV - could you tell me the name of your pool alarm if you find it simple and effective?

Hi ccazes, mine is the Aqualarm. I bought it from this website - the prices are often quite good compared to the shops, and very quick delivery. Mine is in it's 4th year and I think I've only had to change the batteries once. Guests find it very easy to use, they just enter the code before going in the pool. If they forget and it goes off, they can de-activate it and it re-sets itself when they leave the pool (once the water is undisturbed for 9 minutes).

[ccazes]

Many thanks, LV, this looks ideal!

[KathyG]

I had the Aquasensor too and in it's 5th year we had lots of problems with the battery, lasting less than a week in the end. We've just bought a Sensor Premium and fitted it this week (from the same site although it's gone up by €10 in the last few weeks, free delivery though) and it seems to be more robust. It works by passing a magnet over the alarm to activate/deactivate it and it does reactivate itself after 12 minutes too. It is an accredited one.

[Jimbo]

That is completely wrong. The French law on pool security is absolute and does not allow for any person or group of people to opt out of it.

Yes, I understand that disabling a pool alarm could result in an owner entering uncharted waters (to labour the pun!) - I alluded to my reluctance to comply in my previous post. Particularly - as domino says - because the alarms are designed to protect uninvited visitors as well as invited guests. Just shows how misinformation sticks in the mind (mine anyway!) as easily as legitimate stuff.

Jim