Is it safe to email my IBAN number?

[Normandy Cow]

I am taking a booking from a dutch family and they are going to pay me in Euros. They are going to transfer the funds into my French bank account.

I know that you should never send credit card details by email, but what about an IBAN number? Am I being overly paranoid?

[Alan Knighting]

Catherine,

I think it is OK to give the bank details which are included in your RIB but I may be totally wrong.

Actually, I would like to know the answer. I am nearly always paid by cheque in the currency of the client. That means having to work out some sort of exchange rate with the client and then having to accept the exchange rate applied by my French bank and the bank's commissions and the bank's handling charges. How much simpler, and cheaper, it would be if the clients could get their banks to transfer the Euro equivalent of the payment direct to my bank.

Right now, I don't want to know about credit cards or Paypal or even Western Union. For my sins, bank to bank is my preferred route.

Alan

[la vache!]

Catherine,
I have e-mailed my bank details, including IBAN on several occasions in the past and have never had any problems. Bank transfer is a very easy and relatively cheap way for me to accept payments which are in a different currency.

[paolo]

I send out my IBAN number, and the information can be gleaned from a cheque anyway. The IBAN is made up of your account number and bank code, or something like that.

I have never had a problem, but I now take the precaution advised elsewhere by mascamps that you take payments to a deposit account rather than your current account, then transfer the money over when it arrives. This is because he says scammers cannot withdraw money from a deposit account.

(I believe that in Germany personal cheques are a rarity and bank transfers very common - perhaps it is the same in Holland.)

[John Borg]

I have been sending my Iban for the past 2 years now and it is perfectly safe to do so. Just to rest my mind (you can never be too sure!!) I use an account which was opened specifically for this purpose and I transfer the money as soon as it arrives, always leaving the account practically empty, just in case.
The payment method is less risky than cheques as "Swift Transfers" as they are called, don't bounce
Just make it clear to your clients that you want the full amount transferred, AFTER charges have been deducted, otherwise you will sometimes be paying hefty transfer fees, depending on which bank. I have never had a client who has objected to this so far.

[Guest3]

Catherine,

Similar to John.....we've given out our IBAN code banking details to guests booking the villa for the last 3 years with no probems, but we have used a separate bank account for this purpose (a deposit account) which is a much safer option than giving out main current account details.

[Normandy Cow]

Thanks everyone for your replies.

As I don't have a separate deposit account I phoned my bank and had a long discussion with the bank manager. Apparently yes it is correct that if someone has your IBAN number they are able to withdraw funds from your account - but not if they are a "particulier", i.e. a private individual. It is only recognised corporations/companies with a "Numero d'Emetteur" who can lawfully do so (e.g. companies such as EDF, France Telecom etc). And then, they can only do so if you have provided them with a signed "Autorisation de Prelevement" ("direct debit mandate" in UK terms, not sure what it would be in other countries).

I told him (the bank manager) what I was planning to do and he assured me that I should not be too concerned - he had never come across anyone's account being defrauded in this way, and that as I had never signed an autorisation then if by some chance someone did try to do so, I would not be liable.

So I can now sleep soundly...

[A-two]

I told him (the bank manager) what I was planning to do and he assured me that I should not be too concerned - he had never come across anyone's account being defrauded in this way, and that as I had never signed an autorisation then if by some chance someone did try to do so, I would not be liable.

Catherine, I don't want to speak for Fraise, but I don't think she would agree with your bank manager. If memory serves, she was defrauded by a prospective renter to whom she gave her bank account details, who then sent a fax withdrawal, which was paid out by the bank, despite them not having the mandate and signature to do so. The bank then refused to accept liability and she's having to take them to court for a 5 figure sum I believe. I think we decided after that, the answer is not to have anything in the account, as recommended above, but I would not be comfortable sending any stranger my normal checking account details after what happened to Fraise.

[paolo]

This is the post from Fraise, which was in this thread:

viewtopic.php?t=718

This is exactly what happened to us just before Christmas, someone rang up the bank claiming to be us,followed it up by a fax. No counter checks were made.The money was handed over- over £10,000 went off to Majorca,then onto N. Africa.The bank denies any responsibility because "we "asked for the money!!!Nope,not us...a fraudster!! The action is going before the courts later this year! Most people are completely baffled that no checks were made that the person asking for the money was in fact my husband, obviously it wasn't! How can this happen?? We thought our money was safe in the bank???????????

This was not necessarily from a rental enquiry, as the account number could be taken from a cheque.

[Normandy Cow]

OhMyGod how scary! I have just read Fraise's story and I am going to set up a deposit account and make sure that there is never that much money in my current account (shouldn't be too difficult, there rarely is anyway! ).

[Fraise]

This happened over a year ago.We have had no money back from the bank,the matter is STILL being dragged through the courts,the bank denies it did anything wrong!!!It has ended up costing more than the original stolen money (it's so long ago I can't even remember the amount-think it was 13,000 euros??).Of course the bank then charged US for being overdrawn etc!!We had to prematurely cash in endowments to cover the stolen money.We couldn't pay our builders until we had released the funds,this was detrimental to our poor plumber as we owed him most of the money that was stolen! This in part contributed to our return to UK. I still can't believe it happened,even less that the bank denies any wrongdoing!! Client beware needs to be the motto. Having said that I too have handed out IBAN details subsequent to this.

[mpprh]

Hi

just worth saying that many French companies include IBAN numbers on the bottom of their invoices.

Peter

[alexia s.]

Fraise,
What is the bank's defence? Does it claim that it had your authority to debit your account??

[Fraise]

It claims that this transaction was not abnormal as there had been a lot of recent transactions with similar amounts of money.This is true BUT all the money had been going in to the account (to pay builders)-we have never requested a transfer of money OUT of the account.We also have never rung the bank up (my husband's French not up to it and he is the one supposedly to have rung!! We were in France when this occured ,not Uk!!).The "person"asked for the money to go to a bank in Majorca!!! The gendarmes told us the money was then transferred to N. Africa- we've heard no more from the gendarmerie either although we had to spend new Years Eve in the Gendarmerie reporting the incident blow by blow. I can't even remember all the dates etc now but it was all in the police report.We have since asked for a copy of what we told the police "the pliant??" to straighten out dates,calls to CA etc to give to the solicitor but the police say this isn't possible or necessary!!!!The bank continues to deny all responsibility.

We've had help from an excellent ex CA bank manager who is now a financial advisor and another good French friend.Without them we would have been forced to give up months ago because the intracacies of French law would have been beyond us!!

[alexia s.]

I have seen -yes, they exist - unscrupulous lawyers convince a client who has no defence that the plaintiff (in this case, you) is completely wrong. The gullible client is then happy to spend money defending a case which is indefensible & which is, of course, subsequently lost. Or, the in-house lawyer for your bank could have very few qualifications and even think that the client is right. (The legal adviser of our local urban planning department has no training in urban law.....)
This is bad news for you, either way, but they certainly don't have a defence on the basis of what you have told us.
Good luck - we're all behind you.