Booking scams

Post scam emails to warn other rental owners, or if you are not sure if an enquiry is genuine, put it up here and see what others think.
Darren
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Booking scams

Post by Darren »

This is a must read for any owner;

Lately there has been an increase in individuals using vacation rental websites in the US and around Europe. These individuals are using holiday home owners as a way of making money illegally.

1) Money Order scams
The "holidaymaker" books the accommodation, sends a money order which is fake, or illegal, then cancels the property and asks the owner to send the money back, but to keep a cut themselves.

2) Counterfeit Cashier's Cheque Scam
Cashier's check is offered for deposit/rent. Value of cashier's check exceeds the actual price - renter asks you to wire/send the balance back. Banks will cash the fake cashier's check, release the funds to your account, and then holds you respsonsible.

3) Bookings from Eastern European "holidaymakers" we have reported instances that 1) the owner has had the house trashed, items stolen from house and 2) unsuccesful attempt to rent it due to suspicious owner, the individuals attacked a renter who was renting the house and stole his car.

These warnings are not meant to scare you or put you off renting your wonderful holiday homes - but they are in fact things that have happened to owners who I have spoke to in the last month or two.

I just feel that owners should be aware of these scam attempts so that you are forewarned.

Darren :)
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Vitraux
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Post by Vitraux »

Hi Darren,

I have had lots of these suspect offers of money orders, but not from my rental website but from a simple Classified Ad for a washing machine on my local departmental website, these
e mails are always in very bad English and they offer to send you a money order in excess of the amount and take out the 60 euros or whatever. before sending them the difference.

I have just added these people to my blocked senders list, but if you have volumes of e mails they could be perceived as genuine.

It seems to be a fairly recent thing, together with the begging letters from the Ivory Coast.

Be careful out there!.

Ann
You must learn from the mistakes of others.
You can't possibly live long enough to make them all yourself.
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tansy
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Location: La Manche, Normandy, France

Post by tansy »

Darren, what area is this happening in, is it a certain price bracket of houses?...it hasn't arrived to us Normandy as yet....but thank you for the warning...we still get the usual emails from Prince whatever of Nigeria....I think one came in from a new destination the other day - I love my bin!!

But I have to say I had a young French couple arrive to my house so worried - 'what should we do' when they got their first begging letter - it does work, Ann is right - take care!!
Darren
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Post by Darren »

Hi,

Obviously, I don't want to name rental companies, but it was happening initially on one specific website, now I have received emails from owners who market their sites on other sites that have received the same type of scam email.

I am quite open in that it actually happened to around 15 of my clients last night, luckily I caught it, contacted all of the owners individually, and that is why I wanted to post this warning on this forum.

It is coming in different forms but one thing that stands out is the english, the renter wants to do the transaction quickly, and wants to deal with bank transfer, or cashier cheques.

I have examples of the type of scams I have received from owners so if you want examples just let me know - I don't want to advertise so cannot post to where they can be viewed online.

The properties I've come across that have had problems are in Spain and the US. I don't want to cause alarm and scare people, or put people off renting.. but I just want owners to know that they are scam artists circuling holiday rental websites so you have to be EXTRA cautious.

Darren :)
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paolo
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Post by paolo »

Thanks for the warning Darren.

If something sounds fishy, that's because it is fishy.

- Never accept payment for more than is owed to you.

- And don't think that because money is showing as cleared funds in your bank account, that it is actually yours. Weirdly, money will show as paid in before it has been.

Just to clarify on how you actually lose out in Darren's examples at the top:

Your bank credits your account before the bank issuing the money has cleared it. So if the cheque bounces, a payment can be removed from your account. It has happened to me in innocent circumstances when a cheque was ripped. The money was showing in my account because my bank approved it. But my bank then sent the cheque to the issuing bank for confirmation and they turned it down, because it was ripped. The amount was debited from my account.

I believe it can take a week between your bank adding the amount to your account and the issuing bank confirming the payment is good.

Scammers take advantage of this. Either they 'send' too much, you send them the difference in real money, then their cheque bounces. Or they send the right amount, then have to immediately cancel due to some family tragedy, and please can you send all the money back asap to pay for the funeral, etc. To sweeten this they suggest you keep a percentage for your troubles.

I also turn down any enquiry from someone who has "clients" looking for a house just like mine. I say I will deal with them direct but not through an agent. I never hear from them again.
Paolo
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paolo
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Post by paolo »

Email correspondence today:
Hello Paolo,

I recently changed to a new website to advertise on,
and am getting lots of enquiries, but one has me very
concerned, so I am writing to ask your advice, and if
you feel my suspicions are well founded, for you to
warn others!

I have been contacted by a lady called Betty (she
gives different surnames) who claims to be a model,
American but living in West Africa. She wants to rent
our property in December as she has a work contract to
fulfill. (This is strange because the island is very
quiet in winter)

She seems very keen to make payment, but in an unusual
way. She wants my contact details so that her client
can send me a cheque for a large amount of money which
she says she is owed. I am then supposed to deduct the
cost of rent, and return the rest to Betty by Western
Union.

I'm afraid I suspect this is a money laundering scam.
I wonder whether you agree?
My reply:
I'm glad you emailed me - this is a 100% scam. It's not money laundering, they want to steal your money.

These scams take advantage of the fact that it can take a week for money which is showing as credited to your account to really be in your account. When the cheque they sent bounces, the idea is you will already have sent them real money to cover the difference.

I also had an email from this person this week.

Some warning signs for these scams:
- they are usually badly written;
- mention of Africa;
- mention of 'clients' that want to rent at short notice and pay everything immediately;
- non-existent phone number - the email I got had about 18 digits in the phone number.

NEVER accept payment for more than the rental amount.
NEVER send any money back to someone unless you are sure that money is in your account (leave it at least 2 weeks from when the credit shows in your statement).
NEVER be taken in by hard luck stories of having to arrange a funeral and needing the money, etc.

If in doubt, ask me, or post a question on the Lay My Hat forum
Last edited by paolo on Wed Nov 24, 2004 11:44 am, edited 1 time in total.
Paolo
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Darren
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Post by Darren »

Well dealt with Paolo.

Yet another owner receiving a scam booking enquiry, which are worringly on the increase. With mediums like this forum, we can let owners know of the types of scams out there, and the tale tell signs of a potential scam.

Like Paolo mentions - if you have any doubts about an enquiry, it's best to bring it the attention of the forum before you fall victim of these scam artists.

Darren
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John Borg
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Post by John Borg »

I recieved the exact same scam myself - an American model who wanted to rent the property for 4 weeks in December.
I was wary, one for the fact that why would a "busy" model need to rent a holiday property, near the beach, far away from the commercial centre and want to pay by cheque? I always insist on a bank transfer, to an account that I keep empty by transfering deposits as soon as they arrive.
I then asked for "her agent's" details, such as a listed phone number etc. She was never heard of again!
She also used a yahoo email address, something I am always a bit wary of too.
Malta – always in the sunshine!
Darren
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Post by Darren »

I got this email to my personal email address which is where enquiries come in for my parents apartment in Spain.
My name is samuel moore, I am a naval officer and recently have being on sea for the past two weeks, so I received and email from my son whom just got an admission into university, so I intend to make enquiries about the apartment you have for rent.

So please do get back to me as soon as you can with the necessary details on how much you charge for payment monthly and also yearly, to enable me know if I will be making payment for the place for my son. Also note that payments will be made via a certified cashiers check, so do email back as soon as possible if the apartment is still available.

Thanks
This one I've traced the IP address,
webmail-outgoing.us4.outblaze.com ([205.158.62.67]) Outblaze
are an ISP, whom I've also sent an email to.

If your not sure how to trace the IP address of an email, or not sure what the hell an IP address is then let me know.

Darren
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Sue Dyer
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Location: Belford, Northumberland

Post by Sue Dyer »

John - hope it's not too off topic but you made a point about being cautious about yahoo email addresses...

I use yahoo as my main email as I find it really reliable and useful as it can send text messages to my mobile when I've emails from certain contacts. I find it handy as my ISP is POP3 only, therefore with yahoo I can check for bookings at any computer.

After your point I just wondered if anyone I communicate with is suspicious of my email address - what do others think about web based email addresses?
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paolo
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Post by paolo »

Sue,

I also use web-based email accounts for enquiries - one Yahoo and one Hotmail. I did it originally because I assumed I would get a mountain of spam and didn't want it in my proper inbox.

As it turned out I didn't get much spam at all, but it is useful when I am travelling - it's easier to use these accounts.

I get loads of enquiries from hotmails and yahoos, and never had a problem. If I get a suspicious enquiry, I look for warning signs, and a web email address would be a small contributory one, but not a factor on its own.

So to answer your question, no-one has ever raised an eyebrow on receiving my emails from Yahoo or Hotmail.
Paolo
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John Borg
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Post by John Borg »

Soodyer & Paolo,
I did not say that users of Yahoo etc are not to be trusted, but I rarely recieve scam type soliciting letters from a .com based email host, but more often from Yahoo.
Apologies to anyone offended, it was not my intention.
Malta – always in the sunshine!
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Sue Dyer
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Post by Sue Dyer »

HI John - not offended in the least!! :D Just worried at how I was percived to folk I was trying to do business with!!
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Post by Sunshine Smile »

I was really impressed with one of the UK web advertisers I am with – holidaylettings.co.uk. I had a booking from a guest who telephoned first and enthused about the property and asked for booking details etc. After a few days I did not receive the deposit cheque or form back so telephoned to find out if the guests had changed their mind . No they were waiting for cheques etc to clear - okay so I gave them a few more days. Then they telephoned and wanted to add another person to the party and then another until their numbers exceeded the legal limit to stay in the home.

The guests immediately sent me a note saying with regret my home was too small now that the numbers had increased and that they were looking for a larger property. I provided them with some otpions but they also went back to the same UK web holiday lettings advertiser and approached 9 other owners. Immediately a notice went out to all owners alerting of possible scam in progress as multiple requests had been posted. I was able to write to the web advertisers and informed them of the position. I was so impressed with the web advertisers system to protect us owners and their speed of the operation.

Another factor to consider when deciding 2005 web advertising renewals!
"If you know what you want, you will recognise it when you see it."
alexia s.
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Post by alexia s. »

Going back to the original topic(scams) the British press has a horror story today about what can happen if you withdraw money before a cheque has really cleared. Owners beware! Here is an extract from the article:
"Most people would expect a bank that advised a customer it was safe to withdraw a sum against a cheque which later bounced would assume financial responsibility for the error - but they'd be wrong.
Some banks will pursue their customers through the courts and cripple them financially as a result of errors made during the clearing process. An example of how the cheque clearing process can go terribly wrong for bank customers is graphically illustrated by the case of M S.
The single mother of three now faces having to sell her house to repay a debt of £17,000 after her bank HSBC allowed her to draw against a cheque which then bounced.
Ms S's battle with the bank started in July 2002 when she was approached by one of her then boyfriend's relatives, who said she was going through a difficult divorce. She asked whether Ms S would mind if her boyfriend paid a cheque into her account and to pass on the cash when the cheque cleared.
Although initially sceptical, the secretary agreed to do it after being told that the money would be used to help a single mother.
"Looking back on it, I realise that I was the subject of a sting. I was concerned about helping this person, but thought that as long as I waited for the cheque to clear, there was no risk to myself. How wrong I was," she says.
On Tuesday (July 2), her boyfriends' relative paid a cheque for £12,886 in to an HSBC branch in Walsall in the West Midlands. They had asked to be given £10,000 in cash and a cheque for the rest once the cheque had cleared.
The next day she contacted her branch in Epsom to say that she would be withdrawing the cash once the cheque had cleared, and asked when that would be. She was advised that would happen on Thursday or Friday.
On the Friday morning she telephoned to check the cheque had cleared and when she was told that it had, she arranged to go in later that morning.
Her bank account was quickly frozen and all lines of credit were withdrawn. The bank initially tried to get her to take out a loan to repay the money, and when she refused, the staff said they would sue to get it back
The court found in HSBC's favour and a charge was put on her house. By this stage that debt with legal costs had risen to £15,700.
The case appears to have rested on whether Ms S was told when she took the money out that the cheque had cleared for "interest purposes and withdrawal but could still be returned unpaid". HSBC told the court this was what happened.
However, Ms S is absolutely adamant that she was not given this warning at any of the three occasions when she asked whether the cheque had cleared. "
Best,
Alexia.
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