Dear all
I would be very grateful for your advice. I have been reading avidly through all the brilliant advice on this site (thanks everyone) and am now thoroughly confused.
My young family and I are planning on relocating to the south of France (Tarn or Languedoc area) and had planned to run a gite complex and do some special trips to attract out of season rentals. However obviously I am worried about the potential income level as the season is so short. I've been impressed with Paolo's advice that his village houses are rented out practically all year and seem to attract more international guests. Can you advise me that if we change our plan and instead focused on developing a small portfolio (say 4) excellent village properties and marketed them well that we would get more rental. I'd really appreciate your advice as I know you have all been there and done that!
Many thanks
Ciara
Gite complex or Village houses
If I were in your shoes (altho obviously no-one can be !!) I would do exactly that.I think a small portfolio is an excellent way to go.I believe that it is too late to invest in gite complexes,they are on the decline.This is my opinion,others may have theirs!!! Whatever you do,good luck with the venture!!! 
Whether you choose a gite complex or village houses, I think you need to consider your location carefully. In Paolo's case, Provence is a very popular and well known destination and he seems to get a lot of US guests. If you want bookings all year, they go for smaller properties. However, with larger properties there is a shorter season, but the income can be just as good as you can charge more. Gite complexes are very common now, but a lot of families prefer to stay somewhere with a pool and a large garden and possibly other families so the kids can make friends, rather than in a village house. Have a look at the big holiday rental websites (e.g. Holiday-rentals.com) and see what sort of accomodation is available in the Tarn/Languedoc and what rental rates are being charged. And the availability - that will give you an idea of how popular the type of accomodation is (assuming they have updated their calendars).
Thanks Susan and Fraise. I really appreciate your comments.
Part of my change in direction has been spurred by the fact that I was recently trying to book a gite for our family trip to France in April. I found it very difficult to distinguish between all the wonderful properties being advertised. There is such a huge number of lovely houses out there with pools that I supose I was thinking if you offered something different (e.g. a village house where you can stroll to the market and feel part of the village life yet with a small outdoor space to eat in and admire the views). I wondered if this would be offering something a little different which might stand out from the crowd. Also I was really thinking of specifically targetting older couples who travel all year rather than families. do you think there is a market there. Like Paolo I think I'd have to try to attract visitors from outside Europe. I am sure the fact that Paolo is in Provence is a huge factor in attracting his year round bookings (I've PMd him seperately with a few more questions) but unfortunately it's out of our price range - but hey isn't Languedoc suposed to be the next Provence?
Also to be honest we had thought that if we spread the investment over 2-3 smaller properties and rented a house for ourselves in France we could then hold on to and rent out our home (in case we needed to come back) and that these smaller investment properties would be easier to sell rather than taking 2 years to sell a larger place.
What do you think? Any more advice would be very welcome.
From a confused Irish woman!
Part of my change in direction has been spurred by the fact that I was recently trying to book a gite for our family trip to France in April. I found it very difficult to distinguish between all the wonderful properties being advertised. There is such a huge number of lovely houses out there with pools that I supose I was thinking if you offered something different (e.g. a village house where you can stroll to the market and feel part of the village life yet with a small outdoor space to eat in and admire the views). I wondered if this would be offering something a little different which might stand out from the crowd. Also I was really thinking of specifically targetting older couples who travel all year rather than families. do you think there is a market there. Like Paolo I think I'd have to try to attract visitors from outside Europe. I am sure the fact that Paolo is in Provence is a huge factor in attracting his year round bookings (I've PMd him seperately with a few more questions) but unfortunately it's out of our price range - but hey isn't Languedoc suposed to be the next Provence?
Also to be honest we had thought that if we spread the investment over 2-3 smaller properties and rented a house for ourselves in France we could then hold on to and rent out our home (in case we needed to come back) and that these smaller investment properties would be easier to sell rather than taking 2 years to sell a larger place.
What do you think? Any more advice would be very welcome.
From a confused Irish woman!
Hi Ciaram,
This is what we looked for location wise when holidaying in France before becoming owners:-
In or on the edge of a village so you could walk to the baker's for the morning bread and pastries enjoying village life as you went, if the village had a place to have a coffee or eat lunch or dinner even better.
An hours drive max.to the coast when the children were younger.
A pool or splash pool to cool down in.
No owner's on site.
Once we narrowed down the above we then wanted the house to have:-
A dishwasher
Outdoor eating area with space and a pleasant garden to look at.
BBQ
Beds and not fold down one's.
Minimum of 2 bathrooms.
Some games all the family could play together.
Off road parking.
The above ticked some of our boxes then we decided on which properties ticked the remainder.
We had wonderful holiday's over the year's to different department's within France some houses were better than others our's has all the above and I think it's reasonable to think that most families like them as well. We have no availability from mid May through to Sept with bookings between now and mid May, therefore it works for us as owner's
We are looking for another property (not so large) for us or our children to visit when ever we feel like it and along the same criteria for location as before.
I agree with you that there is a rise in the number of couples of a certain age who can afford the time and have more of a disposable income to holiday whenever it suits them and properties aimed at this ever increasing market should be a viable one.
Good luck to you and hope this is of use.
Regards
This is what we looked for location wise when holidaying in France before becoming owners:-
In or on the edge of a village so you could walk to the baker's for the morning bread and pastries enjoying village life as you went, if the village had a place to have a coffee or eat lunch or dinner even better.
An hours drive max.to the coast when the children were younger.
A pool or splash pool to cool down in.
No owner's on site.
Once we narrowed down the above we then wanted the house to have:-
A dishwasher
Outdoor eating area with space and a pleasant garden to look at.
BBQ
Beds and not fold down one's.
Minimum of 2 bathrooms.
Some games all the family could play together.
Off road parking.
The above ticked some of our boxes then we decided on which properties ticked the remainder.
We had wonderful holiday's over the year's to different department's within France some houses were better than others our's has all the above and I think it's reasonable to think that most families like them as well. We have no availability from mid May through to Sept with bookings between now and mid May, therefore it works for us as owner's
We are looking for another property (not so large) for us or our children to visit when ever we feel like it and along the same criteria for location as before.
I agree with you that there is a rise in the number of couples of a certain age who can afford the time and have more of a disposable income to holiday whenever it suits them and properties aimed at this ever increasing market should be a viable one.
Good luck to you and hope this is of use.
Regards
Ciara,
There is a year-round market of older couples from the US, Canada, Australia, New Zealand and the UK who want to stay in a small village house. The village must have some basic shops and be charming rather than new-build.
As pointed out though, location is very important. Provence is somewhere that the above nationalities have some impression of and might look up on the internet if they are considering France. I can't speak for the Languedoc. I know that it is a less popular tourist destination than Provence, but that does not mean it isn't popular.
There is a good tip above - look up the sort of properties you are thinking of on listing sites and check rates and availability. Then call them and as long as you say you are not going to be in the same location, just in the same region, I am sure most owners would be happy enough to tell you what the market is like.
If you can afford it, go for a 2-bed, 2-bath village house rather than a 1-bed. There are also a lot of 'double couples' travelling around, or parents meeting up with children, or parents with pre-school children in tow. A 1-bedroom house would not allow you to tap into that (unless you went for the sofa-bed option, which isn't ideal).
I haven't had your PM by the way. If you emailed me my email is up the spout today, I will have a look on dial-up.
There is a year-round market of older couples from the US, Canada, Australia, New Zealand and the UK who want to stay in a small village house. The village must have some basic shops and be charming rather than new-build.
As pointed out though, location is very important. Provence is somewhere that the above nationalities have some impression of and might look up on the internet if they are considering France. I can't speak for the Languedoc. I know that it is a less popular tourist destination than Provence, but that does not mean it isn't popular.
There is a good tip above - look up the sort of properties you are thinking of on listing sites and check rates and availability. Then call them and as long as you say you are not going to be in the same location, just in the same region, I am sure most owners would be happy enough to tell you what the market is like.
If you can afford it, go for a 2-bed, 2-bath village house rather than a 1-bed. There are also a lot of 'double couples' travelling around, or parents meeting up with children, or parents with pre-school children in tow. A 1-bedroom house would not allow you to tap into that (unless you went for the sofa-bed option, which isn't ideal).
I haven't had your PM by the way. If you emailed me my email is up the spout today, I will have a look on dial-up.
Paolo
Lay My Hat
Lay My Hat
Thanks guys for all your comments. Johnel you are vastly more organised than I am when it comes to picking a holiday venue - I think I'll employ your formula in future.
I've spent the last hour working out figures on Excel and it looks like we wouldn't be able to survive on the rental from even 3 small village properties unless we could be sure to fill them all year.
I think the Provence factor is vastly important as it is known worldwide and as we won't have that I'm not sure it's a viable option.
Susan made a really good point that we could probably make a similar income in 10 weeks in gites as we could in 30 weeks in small village properties - and anyway the whole point is we want to live in the country, off the land (!) etc. So I think I'm going back to my original plan now!
I think I have to go an see a psychic who might be able to tell me what to do!
I've spent the last hour working out figures on Excel and it looks like we wouldn't be able to survive on the rental from even 3 small village properties unless we could be sure to fill them all year.
I think the Provence factor is vastly important as it is known worldwide and as we won't have that I'm not sure it's a viable option.
Susan made a really good point that we could probably make a similar income in 10 weeks in gites as we could in 30 weeks in small village properties - and anyway the whole point is we want to live in the country, off the land (!) etc. So I think I'm going back to my original plan now!
I think I have to go an see a psychic who might be able to tell me what to do!
Hi Ciaram,
we were in the same position as you last year. We saw our place at a property exhibition in Birmingham, got on a ferry the very next weekend and made an offer that was accepted. We did well for our money. We got 2 gites, 3 B&B rooms and a campsite. When we're not earning from the gites (12 weeks booked so far), we're earning from the campsite (July & August sell outs). It seems to be a great mix, as we have people staying here in their caravans while their non-camping friends or relatives can enjoy the luxury of a gite! That's something you should maybe think about? You also have to try & diversify as much as you can. Earn mony where you can, and when you can. Offer evening meals, offer airport pick-ups. Give people the service they want, and they'll book with you. It does help if you have a pretty property in a pretty location.
Good luck in your decision!
we were in the same position as you last year. We saw our place at a property exhibition in Birmingham, got on a ferry the very next weekend and made an offer that was accepted. We did well for our money. We got 2 gites, 3 B&B rooms and a campsite. When we're not earning from the gites (12 weeks booked so far), we're earning from the campsite (July & August sell outs). It seems to be a great mix, as we have people staying here in their caravans while their non-camping friends or relatives can enjoy the luxury of a gite! That's something you should maybe think about? You also have to try & diversify as much as you can. Earn mony where you can, and when you can. Offer evening meals, offer airport pick-ups. Give people the service they want, and they'll book with you. It does help if you have a pretty property in a pretty location.
Good luck in your decision!
It's good to have that update from Stu and Syb too - I'm glad it's working out for you.
I think you have to make your own 'list' of essentials. One thing is what income you need to generate - we don't have a mortgage for example and were looking for a small income to top up our pensions - and really a project for two people who aren't really ready to retire. So that puts a very diferent picture on the whole thing.
We have two gites and our objective is 20 weeks high season between the two - we are 70% there for 2006 - so we are not too unhappy at the moment!
As we are still working on the property - our bit at last! - we haven't put too much energy into marketing but we do have plans to offer something extra for the Spring and Autumn from next year. We are closed from Nov to March.
We too wanted to live in the country and this is our permanent home and we love it!! So all these factors influence your choice - whatever you decide - Good Luck!!!!
I think you have to make your own 'list' of essentials. One thing is what income you need to generate - we don't have a mortgage for example and were looking for a small income to top up our pensions - and really a project for two people who aren't really ready to retire. So that puts a very diferent picture on the whole thing.
We have two gites and our objective is 20 weeks high season between the two - we are 70% there for 2006 - so we are not too unhappy at the moment!
As we are still working on the property - our bit at last! - we haven't put too much energy into marketing but we do have plans to offer something extra for the Spring and Autumn from next year. We are closed from Nov to March.
We too wanted to live in the country and this is our permanent home and we love it!! So all these factors influence your choice - whatever you decide - Good Luck!!!!
Stu & Syb, congratulations on your decision making ability. Looks like you found just the right place and it's great that it's working out so well for you. The property looks really lovely so I'm not suprised you are booked up already. Are you worried about having the time to be able to offer all the extras you are offering? Looks like you'll be working hard all summer. But I supose that's the whole point isn't it - and then to have some time to reflect in the winter.
Enid, unfortunately we do need to make a 'proper' living. I'm not patient enough to wait until we retire. In fact this all started because we were looking for a house in Sth France that we could buy now, rent out and move to when the kids are grown etc. Then we realised that we could probably just about afford to do it now, so we decided why wait 20 years! Our kids are 6, 4 and 7 months so they are the perfect ages to move now. If my eldest was a year or two older I would worry that he'd find the transition too difficult and it would affect his education.
Enid, I would be really interested to hear how the Health Spa is working out. Do you find this is a real bonus for guests? Do they use it enough to justify the cost and do you think it has helped encourage them to book your Gites rather than somewhere else?
So I guess we are sticking to our original plan of going for a gite complex and keeping fingers, toes and everything crossed it works out.
Thanks guys.
Enid, unfortunately we do need to make a 'proper' living. I'm not patient enough to wait until we retire. In fact this all started because we were looking for a house in Sth France that we could buy now, rent out and move to when the kids are grown etc. Then we realised that we could probably just about afford to do it now, so we decided why wait 20 years! Our kids are 6, 4 and 7 months so they are the perfect ages to move now. If my eldest was a year or two older I would worry that he'd find the transition too difficult and it would affect his education.
Enid, I would be really interested to hear how the Health Spa is working out. Do you find this is a real bonus for guests? Do they use it enough to justify the cost and do you think it has helped encourage them to book your Gites rather than somewhere else?
So I guess we are sticking to our original plan of going for a gite complex and keeping fingers, toes and everything crossed it works out.
Thanks guys.
Well can't really tell yet - I am almostsure that it got us the booking for the first two weeks of April. We haven't really marketed it yet - no photos of the interior as we still have to grout the tiles!! We will be charging 10 euros an hour.Enid, I would be really interested to hear how the Health Spa is working out. Do you find this is a real bonus for guests? Do they use it enough to justify the cost and do you think it has helped encourage them to book your Gites rather than somewhere else?
I'll give some feedback on LMH after the season.
P.S. I adore the spa!!!!!
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Alan Knighting
- Posts: 4120
- Joined: Mon Oct 18, 2004 7:26 am
- Location: Monflanquin, Lot-et-Garonne, France
Ciaram,
I'm not trying to put you off, not in the slightest. Why should I? I live the life and I love it!
Do please make sure that your income projections still work out when taking a pessimistic view. Even the Garden of Eden is a lousy place to live if one is financially strapped. Don’t forget the need to make Social Security Contributions to secure health services and state pensions – you’ll need them eventually.
I hope your plans come to fruition.
Alan
I'm not trying to put you off, not in the slightest. Why should I? I live the life and I love it!
Do please make sure that your income projections still work out when taking a pessimistic view. Even the Garden of Eden is a lousy place to live if one is financially strapped. Don’t forget the need to make Social Security Contributions to secure health services and state pensions – you’ll need them eventually.
I hope your plans come to fruition.
Alan
Hi Ciaram,
Best of luck with your plans. I, too, am planning my move to France this year to run gites. I have been dreaming of this for years, but waited till my last child left for university so it will be just me toute seule!
I am tarting up my UK house prior to sale - I've just been "House Doctored" - and once it is sold the UK won't see me for dust. I'm off on my first viewing trip next week to see what's what in Poitou Charentes and I can't wait.
I, too, will have to make a living from the gite business, and still support my two student daughters for a year or so (as little as possible!) so I would love to hear how you get on with your project.
I am really excited and I am sure you are too.
Bonne chance et bon courage!
Lou
Best of luck with your plans. I, too, am planning my move to France this year to run gites. I have been dreaming of this for years, but waited till my last child left for university so it will be just me toute seule!
I am tarting up my UK house prior to sale - I've just been "House Doctored" - and once it is sold the UK won't see me for dust. I'm off on my first viewing trip next week to see what's what in Poitou Charentes and I can't wait.
I, too, will have to make a living from the gite business, and still support my two student daughters for a year or so (as little as possible!) so I would love to hear how you get on with your project.
I am really excited and I am sure you are too.
Bonne chance et bon courage!
Lou
Louise
www.lacharronniere.com delightful gites in the Vienne countryside.
www.lacharronniere.com delightful gites in the Vienne countryside.
I would just like to back up what Alan has said. There are a lot of financial things that are overlooked, utilities are expensive and so is the upkeep, maintenance and general cost of replacement and wear and tear of gites. The social contributions are important as it the provision of a pension. It sounds like you will be more self suffucient than me, but nevertheless son not underestimate the costs involved.