After a busy first year (not over yet, but getting there), I'm seriously considering getting a quality rating over the quiet season, and looking for advice.
Comparing the assessment criteria of the AA and Enjoy England (EE) Quality in Tourism, there doesn't seem to be a lot between them, except maybe the AA is a bit less prescriptive about some of the silly stuff like having a butter dish. I do by the way - don't think it's been used yet!
But comparing prices, the AA would be £146 up until Jan 2013, whereas EE would be £160 up until April 2012 (both +VAT)
Is there any advantage of going down the EE route that I'm not aware of?
From what I hear and read the Enjoy England/Visit Britain accommodation listing is worth toffee, and I'm not fussed about receiveing their magazines.
The only thing that I can think of which would point me in their direction would be the possibility of displaying a Gold Award (using the assesment documentation objectively I reckon I'd come out as an upper end 4*) - but I'm not convinced it's worth the extra, and have no gaurantee that I'd actually make the grade.
Any news on the dispanding of VB/EE ratings altogether as previously rumoured?
Cheers
Dave
Rating - AA vs Enjoy England
Rating - AA vs Enjoy England
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charles cawley
- Posts: 1205
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- Location: Herefordshire, Shropshire, Borders
Like the web site.
The ratings are reducing in value as more photos are put up on web sites.
10 years ago, ratings were very useful. Now, if a cottage features enough photos and info, the pictures speak for themselves.
I would tend to go for photos and not for anything that needs downloading or videos. People searching for cottages often find it fraught and like to list possibles in the favourites and compare like with like... photos with photos. We find about 15% of all bookings are now made through mobile devices and around 20% of all seaches partly or only use a mobile device and these gadgets are not yet so good at dealing with downloaded videos.
They sometimes only look at videos after bookings are made, for further info. A different approach, however attractive from the normal, can throw them.
We go heavily on presentation and photos and find a majority of guests are not particularly swayed by star ratings any more. Perhaps it is because so many people have found great places without stars and suffered disappointment in other which were fully certified?
If you have managed to attract guests to your web site and your photos are good enough, stars are often redundant.
The ratings are reducing in value as more photos are put up on web sites.
10 years ago, ratings were very useful. Now, if a cottage features enough photos and info, the pictures speak for themselves.
I would tend to go for photos and not for anything that needs downloading or videos. People searching for cottages often find it fraught and like to list possibles in the favourites and compare like with like... photos with photos. We find about 15% of all bookings are now made through mobile devices and around 20% of all seaches partly or only use a mobile device and these gadgets are not yet so good at dealing with downloaded videos.
They sometimes only look at videos after bookings are made, for further info. A different approach, however attractive from the normal, can throw them.
We go heavily on presentation and photos and find a majority of guests are not particularly swayed by star ratings any more. Perhaps it is because so many people have found great places without stars and suffered disappointment in other which were fully certified?
If you have managed to attract guests to your web site and your photos are good enough, stars are often redundant.
No web-site for now.
Advice about holiday letting
Advice about holiday letting
Hi Charles,
(and thanks for the compliment on the web site!).
I appreciate your insight into the relative value of ratings now that so much more information is available to prospective guests.
There are a couple of reasons why I'm thinking of going down that route, and both relate to getting customers to get as far as my site.
Firstly, visitnorfolk.co.uk which is one of the better ranked non-agency sites for my target audience, will only advertise graded accommodation. I'm panning to ditch a poor performer, and try them.
Secondly, one of my better performing local sites, groups properties into classes (e.g. with free wi-fi, with hot-tub, luxury 4 & 5* graded), so having a grading would help with my listing there too.
So maybe I've answered my own question - if the grading is a means to an end, just go for the cheapest?
I just thought others may have a different angle that I hadn't considered...
Regards
Dave
(and thanks for the compliment on the web site!).
I appreciate your insight into the relative value of ratings now that so much more information is available to prospective guests.
There are a couple of reasons why I'm thinking of going down that route, and both relate to getting customers to get as far as my site.
Firstly, visitnorfolk.co.uk which is one of the better ranked non-agency sites for my target audience, will only advertise graded accommodation. I'm panning to ditch a poor performer, and try them.
Secondly, one of my better performing local sites, groups properties into classes (e.g. with free wi-fi, with hot-tub, luxury 4 & 5* graded), so having a grading would help with my listing there too.
So maybe I've answered my own question - if the grading is a means to an end, just go for the cheapest?
I just thought others may have a different angle that I hadn't considered...
Regards
Dave
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charles cawley
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- Joined: Tue Sep 21, 2010 1:53 pm
- Location: Herefordshire, Shropshire, Borders
Visit Herefordshire is a poor effort; I say this knowing it will not please some loyal local Herefordshire people. To their credit, they are to ditch the rule that only cottages with stars can feature. On the other hand, Shropshire Tourism is a little better, but it does not get huge results.
I would, of course, advise you to use an agent like us. However, some of the listing sites such as holiday lettings etc: are well worth considering. There is quite a bit about these on Lay My Hat. If used carefully they can be quite effective.
On the photos thing, I strongly advise that you go big on these, if possible. I may not have looked at your site carefully enough and apologise if you have already done so.
I would, of course, advise you to use an agent like us. However, some of the listing sites such as holiday lettings etc: are well worth considering. There is quite a bit about these on Lay My Hat. If used carefully they can be quite effective.
On the photos thing, I strongly advise that you go big on these, if possible. I may not have looked at your site carefully enough and apologise if you have already done so.
No web-site for now.
Advice about holiday letting
Advice about holiday letting
Thanks Charles,
We are on HL, a couple of local ones (one good, one not) and Cottage Guide.
This year has been pretty reasonable - we only 'opened' mid Feb, started our HL ad in March, and have filled 31 weeks so far. But could always do better.
I did check out a few of the local agencies (as well as a couple of national ones) when we started, but didn't find anyone with terms like yours! Most require 20% plus commisson +VAT, and even most of the local ones want exclusivity.
If there was a local Country Holiday Lets, it may have been a different story!
Cheers
Dave
We are on HL, a couple of local ones (one good, one not) and Cottage Guide.
This year has been pretty reasonable - we only 'opened' mid Feb, started our HL ad in March, and have filled 31 weeks so far. But could always do better.
I did check out a few of the local agencies (as well as a couple of national ones) when we started, but didn't find anyone with terms like yours! Most require 20% plus commisson +VAT, and even most of the local ones want exclusivity.
If there was a local Country Holiday Lets, it may have been a different story!
Cheers
Dave
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charles cawley
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- Location: Herefordshire, Shropshire, Borders
To be fair to your local agencies, we do charge 20% for those which are harder to find bookings.
At 17% plus vat the economics are very tight indeed... but the non exclusivity has proved a good move and we find that it is very rare indeed that we take owners from legacy agencies but we ensure the legacy agencies have a very tough time getting new hiqh quality lets.
The trick, in our business, is to get the high quality well price lets. The market does the rest. I am staggered that homeowners still tolerate charges of 26% plus vat and extras such as annual membership fees on top. The practice of charging commission on owner generated lettings is astonishing and belongs to another age.
Coming back on thread, the stars are fast becoming redundant except where web sites are old fashioned and do not provide for sufficient photographs and a good presentation.
At 17% plus vat the economics are very tight indeed... but the non exclusivity has proved a good move and we find that it is very rare indeed that we take owners from legacy agencies but we ensure the legacy agencies have a very tough time getting new hiqh quality lets.
The trick, in our business, is to get the high quality well price lets. The market does the rest. I am staggered that homeowners still tolerate charges of 26% plus vat and extras such as annual membership fees on top. The practice of charging commission on owner generated lettings is astonishing and belongs to another age.
Coming back on thread, the stars are fast becoming redundant except where web sites are old fashioned and do not provide for sufficient photographs and a good presentation.
No web-site for now.
Advice about holiday letting
Advice about holiday letting
Dave
I am travelling in the opposite direction. We have been EE/VB 4* rated in one lodge out of 4 for 4 years but for next year I am going to save myself the inspection fee and ditch the rating.
For me it was a sort of security blanket, but I can't say I am aware of a single extra booking it has generated, so it was quite an expensive one.
I am also totally fed up with the bureuacratic idiocy of VB/EE. They don't police the scheme effectively so almost anyone could get away with falsely claiming a rating for a long time before being found out and getting their knuckles very mildly rapped.
As Charles points out in the old days where printed media and 2 line entries was all we had a star rating was a short hand signifying quality. Today with the web you really don't need that as people can really see what they are getting from your (very nice) site .
Couple that with the uncertainty about the EE star rating scheme's future and my advice would be save your money and spend it on another listing site.
I am travelling in the opposite direction. We have been EE/VB 4* rated in one lodge out of 4 for 4 years but for next year I am going to save myself the inspection fee and ditch the rating.
For me it was a sort of security blanket, but I can't say I am aware of a single extra booking it has generated, so it was quite an expensive one.
I am also totally fed up with the bureuacratic idiocy of VB/EE. They don't police the scheme effectively so almost anyone could get away with falsely claiming a rating for a long time before being found out and getting their knuckles very mildly rapped.
As Charles points out in the old days where printed media and 2 line entries was all we had a star rating was a short hand signifying quality. Today with the web you really don't need that as people can really see what they are getting from your (very nice) site .
Couple that with the uncertainty about the EE star rating scheme's future and my advice would be save your money and spend it on another listing site.
Hi Windy,
It was really your postings on the VB/EE saga that made me look into AA ratings in the first place.
I don't think my mind is completely made up yet either way, maybe I am after a comfort blanket...
We have already done better than we hoped in our first year, with 32 weeks let since we opened in March, but I think that was partly because I under-priced. I have increased the rates for next year to reflect what we offer, so feel the need for some form of independant proof of quality. Plus as mentioned above, the local tourist board in North Norfolk do rank pretty well in the search results...
Cheers
Dave
It was really your postings on the VB/EE saga that made me look into AA ratings in the first place.
I don't think my mind is completely made up yet either way, maybe I am after a comfort blanket...
We have already done better than we hoped in our first year, with 32 weeks let since we opened in March, but I think that was partly because I under-priced. I have increased the rates for next year to reflect what we offer, so feel the need for some form of independant proof of quality. Plus as mentioned above, the local tourist board in North Norfolk do rank pretty well in the search results...
Cheers
Dave
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kendalcottages
- Posts: 2474
- Joined: Fri Nov 27, 2009 11:08 am
- Location: Kendal, between the Lake District and the Dales
- Contact:
Do you need a security blanket?
We opened to our first guests in April 2010, and achieved around 70% occupancy from that time until the end of the year (I haven't calculated the number of weeks, but think that probably works out as less than 32...)
We put our prices up in 2011 and this year will achieve just under 90% occupancy. We have prices up again for next year, and are around 60% up on forward bookings for 2012.
Personally, I'm not convinced you need a security blanket. The first year will always(/often) be the hardest. With time (and perhaps you've had some already), you'll have a new and possibly significant source of bookings: repeats.
If I was in your shoes, I would save your money and not bother with the cost and the hassle. We didn't and don't (and I hope I'm not speaking too soon) seem to have suffered as a result.
We opened to our first guests in April 2010, and achieved around 70% occupancy from that time until the end of the year (I haven't calculated the number of weeks, but think that probably works out as less than 32...)
We put our prices up in 2011 and this year will achieve just under 90% occupancy. We have prices up again for next year, and are around 60% up on forward bookings for 2012.
Personally, I'm not convinced you need a security blanket. The first year will always(/often) be the hardest. With time (and perhaps you've had some already), you'll have a new and possibly significant source of bookings: repeats.
If I was in your shoes, I would save your money and not bother with the cost and the hassle. We didn't and don't (and I hope I'm not speaking too soon) seem to have suffered as a result.
Kendal Holiday Cottages Ltd., Kendal, Cumbria - between the Lake District & the Yorkshire Dales.
FWIW - we've just had our VE assessor visit us, and had a good chat with her (she's very helpful) and have decided to take a 5 star rating for two of our three properties, leaving the third at 4 star Gold. The key driver for this decision is the amount of dross that has a 4 star rating, which tends to affect the expectations of guests, and we feel we need to differentiate as much as possible for the forthcoming potentially tough year. The problem is that the 4 star rating is too broad a band, with really good and fairly dismal properties (BTW, our assessor agreed); according to some info from QIT a few months back, I calculated that 57% of rated properties have a 4 star rating.
To me, the ONLY value from the rating is getting an experienced third party view, and the accompanying badge, whose value is diminishing for a number of reasons that have been discussed elsewhere on the forum. We may well dump the process next year; time will tell. The more properties that drop out of the scheme, the more meaningless it becomes, and the more properties will drop out (can anyone hear a gurgling noise?)
I haven't looked at the AA listing site for rental properties; it would be worth doing so to see what it's like, although I've never hit it with any relevant general Google searches. The VE one is a waste of space; it isn't even possible to search for properties whose facilities include WiFi, or a dishwasher, although a guest can search for properties that actually provide bed linen!! (Now who'd expect a UK holiday rental property to provide bed linen? There's a big selling point!
)
I fired off a snotty post to the VE/AKH forum on the subject, and surprise surprise it hasn't appeared. (It may have been a mistake to point out that although we don't know why dinosaurs became extinct, when VE become extinct the reasons will be obvious and laughable). However, I did receive an email from someone involved in the website (and I'd better not say too much on a public forum at this stage) which made interesting reading. In a nutshell, VE have cut the funding for the website due to having their government subsidy cut. So any plans for improvements on such things as searchable facilities are dead in the water. The assessors, who actually work for G4S who have the contract for the VE assessments, are waiting to hear if that contract is going to be removed (they might know by now - this was Monday). What it comes down to is that VE are in a pile of poo of their own making, and are very unlikely to wake up to the fact that if they got off their collective arse and actually did something useful for accommodation providers, we might feel a whole lot better about giving them a substantial amount of cash each year. I won't be hugely surprised to see VE fold within a couple of years, and I'm serious.
So where does that leave the AA? Good question. It could provide them with a good opportunity, but would they choose to take it?
I can identify with the notion of a "comfort blanket", and an independent assessment and proof of quality, particularly when repeat and word of mouth business is only just building, and I wouldn't argue against having a rating - be it VE or AA - as a useful tool in the first three years or so. Which to choose? I'd be very interested to hear of anyone's experience with the AA, and I certainly don't think that having their sign up would be worth less to public perception than having the EE sign - probably worth more, if anything. BTW, I think (could be wrong) that ratings are interchangeable between VE and AA, such that if you have one you can apply for the other. Bet that costs just as much as the inspection, though.
Frankly, I don't think any decision you make will necessarily be right or wrong (so that's really helpful then.
)
One other thought - as an alternative can you get your local tourist board to give you an assessment of where you fit in the local quality scale, and advise you?
ETA - I don't disagree with KC - just seen his post - although I think he's in more of a niche market with his property, so the need for differentiating isn't as important as when you're one of many similar. But I strongly agree that repeat and recommendation business is key - once you start getting it!
To me, the ONLY value from the rating is getting an experienced third party view, and the accompanying badge, whose value is diminishing for a number of reasons that have been discussed elsewhere on the forum. We may well dump the process next year; time will tell. The more properties that drop out of the scheme, the more meaningless it becomes, and the more properties will drop out (can anyone hear a gurgling noise?)
I haven't looked at the AA listing site for rental properties; it would be worth doing so to see what it's like, although I've never hit it with any relevant general Google searches. The VE one is a waste of space; it isn't even possible to search for properties whose facilities include WiFi, or a dishwasher, although a guest can search for properties that actually provide bed linen!! (Now who'd expect a UK holiday rental property to provide bed linen? There's a big selling point!
) I fired off a snotty post to the VE/AKH forum on the subject, and surprise surprise it hasn't appeared. (It may have been a mistake to point out that although we don't know why dinosaurs became extinct, when VE become extinct the reasons will be obvious and laughable). However, I did receive an email from someone involved in the website (and I'd better not say too much on a public forum at this stage) which made interesting reading. In a nutshell, VE have cut the funding for the website due to having their government subsidy cut. So any plans for improvements on such things as searchable facilities are dead in the water. The assessors, who actually work for G4S who have the contract for the VE assessments, are waiting to hear if that contract is going to be removed (they might know by now - this was Monday). What it comes down to is that VE are in a pile of poo of their own making, and are very unlikely to wake up to the fact that if they got off their collective arse and actually did something useful for accommodation providers, we might feel a whole lot better about giving them a substantial amount of cash each year. I won't be hugely surprised to see VE fold within a couple of years, and I'm serious.
So where does that leave the AA? Good question. It could provide them with a good opportunity, but would they choose to take it?
I can identify with the notion of a "comfort blanket", and an independent assessment and proof of quality, particularly when repeat and word of mouth business is only just building, and I wouldn't argue against having a rating - be it VE or AA - as a useful tool in the first three years or so. Which to choose? I'd be very interested to hear of anyone's experience with the AA, and I certainly don't think that having their sign up would be worth less to public perception than having the EE sign - probably worth more, if anything. BTW, I think (could be wrong) that ratings are interchangeable between VE and AA, such that if you have one you can apply for the other. Bet that costs just as much as the inspection, though.
Frankly, I don't think any decision you make will necessarily be right or wrong (so that's really helpful then.
)One other thought - as an alternative can you get your local tourist board to give you an assessment of where you fit in the local quality scale, and advise you?
ETA - I don't disagree with KC - just seen his post - although I think he's in more of a niche market with his property, so the need for differentiating isn't as important as when you're one of many similar. But I strongly agree that repeat and recommendation business is key - once you start getting it!
Thanks KC & GB, interesting views from both of you.
We've had 4 weeks of repeat booking already, with one set of guests booking their repeat before they were half way through their initial stay, so I know the 'product' is good.
It's just that I'm keenly aware that the market is price-sensitive at the moment, and probably going to become even more so. As I'm very much not in a niche, I can't help thinking that a rating might be worth the cost, at least to stand above the really cheap & cheerful.
I certainly don't think I know so much that I wouldn't benefit form the feedback either - a point well made GB!
It's a bit like chosing a listing site I suppose - you'll never know how well it works for you until you try...
We've had 4 weeks of repeat booking already, with one set of guests booking their repeat before they were half way through their initial stay, so I know the 'product' is good.
It's just that I'm keenly aware that the market is price-sensitive at the moment, and probably going to become even more so. As I'm very much not in a niche, I can't help thinking that a rating might be worth the cost, at least to stand above the really cheap & cheerful.
I certainly don't think I know so much that I wouldn't benefit form the feedback either - a point well made GB!
It's a bit like chosing a listing site I suppose - you'll never know how well it works for you until you try...
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Cotterdale
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- Location: Yorkshire Dales
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Cotterdale
- Posts: 166
- Joined: Thu Nov 25, 2010 10:44 pm
- Location: Yorkshire Dales
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...indeed, which (earlier in this thread) was one of the two main reasons for getting graded.
The visitnorfolk website actually does very well in search rankings, and isn't that expensive to list with (until you factor in the expense of getting graded!).
Another local site produced quite a few enquiries early last year, but since their search criteria are pretty poor, there is a good chance of getting lost in the crowd. There are relatively few properties listed in the 4 & 5 star category however...
I have decided to give it a go for a year and submitted my application (to the AA), so will keep you posted as to how it goes!
The visitnorfolk website actually does very well in search rankings, and isn't that expensive to list with (until you factor in the expense of getting graded!).
Another local site produced quite a few enquiries early last year, but since their search criteria are pretty poor, there is a good chance of getting lost in the crowd. There are relatively few properties listed in the 4 & 5 star category however...
I have decided to give it a go for a year and submitted my application (to the AA), so will keep you posted as to how it goes!
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