Wordpress or Joomla, which is the better for a rental site?

[erikg]

Hello,

Having done HTML websites for many years, I am now experimenting with both Wordpress and Joomla as a platform for the next generation website, and to create something more interactive for our 10-unit retreat in the Pyrenees.

Wordpress is bloggging software, which can also be used to make websites, whereas Joomla is a full CMS platform, and as such more complicated, but beyond the basics, both are suitable for virtually any type of website...

Would be good to get opinions from anyone who has experience with both - and as I progress with it, I am glad to contribute with my opinion - for what it is worth.

Our current html website is here: http://villagecatalan.com
Erik

[HolidayHomeInformation]

Hi

I'm in a similar situation having a good background in html, css etc.

Am working on both Joomla and Wordpress sites at the moment (holidayhomeinformation.co.uk is Joomla) but would say that for non-programmers (php skills) Wordpress is better. It's so user friendly and there are great plug ins for designs and additions, such as directories, forums. And it's easy to customise the header.php, sidebar.php, footer.php and styles.css files.

Andy

[erikg]

Hi

I'm in a similar situation having a good background in html, css etc.

Am working on both Joomla and Wordpress sites at the moment (holidayhomeinformation.co.uk is Joomla) but would say that for non-programmers (php skills) Wordpress is better. It's so user friendly and there are great plug ins for designs and additions, such as directories, forums. And it's easy to customise the header.php, sidebar.php, footer.php and styles.css files.

Andy

Hi Andy, thank you for your comment - I checked your website, and it is nicely done -. congratulations. I found it very informative, and I will return to take a closer look. ( let me share your link with other readers here http://holidayhomeinformation.co.uk )

On my side, I am experimenting with a Joomla based booking system http://owners-direct.net/booking - it seems that Joomla has a lot more possibilities than Wordpress, but it is my observation that WP is easier to use, as you say. Still need to try it out ...

Erik

[Windy]

I think the lines between the two are quite blurred. They are in fact both php based CMS's aren't they.

Wordpress was designed initially as a blogging platform but it has since evolved to allow much more flexibility and it seems to have far more plugins.

Joomla would probably (I think definitely) be better for a listing site, but for a single property I'd go with Wordpress every time if i had to choose between them as it is far more intuitve to use.

The problem you have with both is that as open source they are constantly being upgraded in ways you don't control and which sometimes breaks what you have done. Ignoring the upgrades can leave you open to security attacks, so you are between the devil and the deep blue sea at times.

I prefer using html for that reason for my own sites, although I do have one Wordpress site of my own. I have created a couple of Wordpress sites for clients because (like Joomla) it allows users to edit content without being able to destroy the main structural stuff by accident.

You can make either look pretty good with minimal effort using tools like Artisteer.

[erikg]

I think the lines between the two are quite blurred. They are in fact both php based CMS's aren't they.

Wordpress was designed initially as a blogging platform but it has since evolved to allow much more flexibility and it seems to have far more plugins.

Joomla would probably (I think definitely) be better for a listing site, but for a single property I'd go with Wordpress every time if i had to choose between them as it is far more intuitve to use.

The problem you have with both is that as open source they are constantly being upgraded in ways you don't control and which sometimes breaks what you have done. Ignoring the upgrades can leave you open to security attacks, so you are between the devil and the deep blue sea at times.

I prefer using html for that reason for my own sites, although I do have one Wordpress site of my own. I have created a couple of Wordpress sites for clients because (like Joomla) it allows users to edit content without being able to destroy the main structural stuff by accident.

You can make either look pretty good with minimal effort using tools like Artisteer.

Hi "Windy",

Thanks for mentioning good old HTML, I agree it is probably still the best for a single simple site, but if you create sites for others, WP or Joomla gives that extra possibility of editing and posting content, without the need to know html. Very valid points made about the need to upgrade the site to the latest version (easily done with Cpanel, if the host provides it) - but in that respect I can add that the downside of Open Source (although I am all for open source!) is that version vulnerabilities are published, which makes it a target for hackers. I am told that the following two points are important: 1) always update to the latest version, 2) never publish the version number on the website (such as "powered by...etc).

I suppose the old HTML sites are not at risk of being hacked?

Erik

[Windy]

I suppose the old HTML sites are not at risk of being hacked?

Of course HTML sites can be hacked as I am sure you know. Anything from password cracking on FTP to sql injection attacks if you combine html and php.

I have suffered the former twice myself and it's no fun clearing up the mess. I'd truly hate to have to do it on a WP or Joomla site though.

I think that WP sites are probably more vulnerable simply because, as you say, the vulnerabilities are published and they offer more possibilties for the idiot b@st@rd hackers.

WP or Joomla gives that extra possibility of editing and posting content, without the need to know html

Yes. It's generally not a problem with blog posts where layout isn't generally critical, but in my experience unless the end user understands some html they can get into terrible muddles when they are trying to layout a web page with text and images combined. I then end up bailing them out which isn't a problem per se, but sort of destroys the purpose a bit.

And don't get me started on the way that the fck editor (that is not a mistyped insult btw, it's what it's called ) deletes anything but certain allowed html. I can live with it because I understand what is going on, know roughly what it won't allow and know that if I stay in the source code and don't use the visual editor it won't get stripped out, but try explaining all that to a client who wants to add an iframe to a page.

And why does it do that? Because if it doesn't it exposes the WP site to code injection attacks via the comments facility as far as I can tell.

the need to upgrade the site to the latest version (easily done with Cpanel, if the host provides it)

Fantastico under Cpanel tends to lag behind the release curve for most software. On my host it is currently offering an upgrade to WP 3.1 whereas the current release of WP is 3.3.1 . That's not going to keep you secure I'm afraid.

The automatic upgrades on Wordpress are fine as long as everything is set up just right, but again, in my own experience pressing the "please update now" button in Wordpress can often result in a hung install that leaves the site inoperable until the admin does a manual overwrite. It's all easy enough if you know what you are doing, but it's more systems admin than end user stuff. The normal culprit here is write protected files and directories on your host.

Equally I have had experiences of hung sites because I upgraded without checking what others said about the new version first and it didn't work properly (I think 3.0 to 3.1 was the culprit). Downgrading, luckily didn't cause any issues that time, but with more fundamental upgrades that wouldn't always have been the case.

I have less experience of Joomla, but I gather it suffers from a similar range of issues.

One thing WP is very good for though is SEO.

I think people need to be aware that whilst WP and Joomla do allow end users to add content and so they do offer a certain level of end user content maintenance, they certainly are not pain free in terms of systems maintenance.

This is probably more transparent to the user if you use WP.org rather than self-hosting as I think the core gets updated automatically. The downside of that is that you don't get the full range of plug-ins there.

Phew. Bed time now I think.

[marcus]

I use all three, joomla, wordpress and html.

Overall I would vote for joomla because WP sites often look immediately like WP sites (same for joomla to some extent, but less so) and because I find it has more flexible module positions than the widget positions in wordpress but I'm sure if I checked out other templates I'd find I was wrong...

Joomla and WP can both easily look like sites or look like blogs, and both are really quite similar in day to day use nowadays (modern joomla is nothing like joomla of a few years ago).

Both are fine for SEO, and both have excellent free components for doing regular backups, and with the latest release of joomla they now both have built in 'upgrade with one click' options - although WP is probably easier to use (so far I have never had problems with one click upgrades, but I know some people do - maybe it depends on your hosting server options?)

Joomla is slightly harder to learn, and it is slightly harder to edit the core files than wp.

Finding quality free templates is a challenge for both, more so for joomla, but not impossible, and there are decent templates for less than 50 euros - and the free templates that come with both are OK when played around with a bit. Be aware that free templates (especially for WP in my experience) sometimes hide links in the footer code, so be sure to check).

And HTML? Best place to learn, and least prone to hacking if you aren't using a database (get hacked? just change your password and upload the files again). I would be careful setting up a site that uses a database eg a holiday listing site with html/php/mysql unless you are very sure you can deal with all the security risks.

Eric, your current site would probably be described as 'non-standard' - full-screen picture, limited text etc - and this is the hardest type of site to produce in a CMS. Maybe I'd stick with html if I was preparing that kind of site.

[NewquayGetAway]

Hello,

Having done HTML websites for many years, I am now experimenting with both Wordpress and Joomla as a platform for the next generation website, and to create something more interactive for our 10-unit retreat in the Pyrenees.

Wordpress is bloggging software, which can also be used to make websites, whereas Joomla is a full CMS platform, and as such more complicated, but beyond the basics, both are suitable for virtually any type of website...

Would be good to get opinions from anyone who has experience with both - and as I progress with it, I am glad to contribute with my opinion - for what it is worth.

Our current html website is here: http://villagecatalan.com
Erik

Wordpress is great because of the LARGE amount of skins and plugins that are easily available (and often free free of charge!).

However, for our large site we use Umbraco (which is a not so widely known content management system).

[charles cawley]

We are developing a system based on joomla.

The fundamentals look good but a huge amount of time and quite some cost has been necessary to make the booking and back office more flexible.

We are also creating the system based on joomla to cater for a quite large operation including facilities to generate reports for the homeowners accounts as well as for trading accounts. Homeowner account reconciliation will be important for us as an agency... but something similar might be useful for large own account cottage operations to keep track and reconcile guest deposits and payments.

The vast majority of the cost, which is many times the standard licence of joomla, is going into making the booking periods and rate structures very flexible.

The impression is, as mentioned by a post above, that for one or two cottages Wordpress or similar could be the right choice. But for medium and large operation joomla or some other alternative could be the best bet.

For those starting from fresh, before taking the lunge, make sure that whatever you are buying that it is reasonably new. There're some legacy booking systems out there that were, once, very advanced but, now, might be best avoided.

[bongolier]

I have developed sites using Joomla, know HTML, CSS, etc. (I am an internet retailer) but turned to www.promotemyplace.com which has a sitebuilder template specifically designed for holiday rental market.

Saves a lot of time and results are just as good. Content, availability calendar, guestbook all controlled from account.

Would recommend PromoteMyPlace to anyone. Support is better than excellent.

[Hells Bells]

Totally agree, I'm using it myself.