How many en-suites are too many?

[Ben McNevis]

We've just had our offer accepted on a loch-side Victorian house in Scotland. It's in an area popular with the Scots, very much a holiday village ever since it first became a place for holiday homes about 150 years ago. We're hoping to attract some French too.

It needs some serious updating and we're planning that now. However, there's one issue that remains stubbornly under discussion and it would be nice to get it resolved before it becomes a matter of argument and then a domestic situation!

The question is: how many en-suites is too many?

This house has 4 big and 1 small rooms on each floor. The smallest of the 4 downstairs big rooms has been a bedroom in the past and I think will stay that way. The smallest is going to be a bathroom.

Upstairs, one of the 4 rooms is currently a huge bathroom with a door off to a huge airing cupboard. I've never been a fan of big bathrooms.

My idea is to make each of the 4 big upstairs rooms into bedroom + en-suite.

There's no problem with fitting the en-suites in, still leaving each room as a double bedroom.

Mrs F thinks that's too many bathrooms. The house would then be 6 bedrooms (including 1 single) and 5 bathrooms. Is that too many?

The downsides to more bathrooms are:
1. more cleaning at changeovers
2. higher cost of refurbishment
3. longer time taken for me to put the bathrooms in
4. In bedrooms which had 2 windows, one is taken by the en-suite making the room a little darker.

The positives I think are:
1. more bookings?
2. higher value per booking?
3. higher eventual resale value especially if someone is looking for a B&B property.

My costs per en-suite are just under 2k. What should we do?

[e-richard]

No question.

en-suites

[Hells Bells]

I would go for a maximum of 2 bathrooms on each floor. One communal and one en-suite. Perhaps 4 in total. I'm in agreement with Mrds F here that 5 is too many. Parents of young ones might not be comfortable with the little ones heading to the en-suite.

[wallypott]

Might I suggest that if you can put at least one disabled access bathroom (and bedroom) in it might be a good plan!

En suites do seem to be a seller, but in house of that size it would seem likely that you will get family groups and kids certainly don't need en-suites in my view.

[Harborfields]

If you were going to operate as a B&B and book by the room, then there is no question but that ensuites in every room would be the way to go, but as a holiday rental house, I think would be overkill. You might set it up with two "master bedroom suites," with the remaining bedrooms sharing communal bathrooms. Certainly you need at least a communal "powder room" on the main level.

Wallypott's suggestion of disabled access is a good one!

[Wendy@NorthIdaho]

It sounds like it is a house large enough for 2 families on holiday together. So I would have 2 master bedrooms for each adult couple and then a communal bathroom on each floor. If you think the surrounding area is going to be attracting couples that like to travel together, maybe golfing, skiing? then I don't think 3 ensuites would be bad, I think you have to figure out your target group first and then be able accomodate a second target group also for the flexibility.

Wendy

[Margaret]

I disagree about kids and parents not wanting extra ensuites. We get people loving a separate bathroom for the kids and the all ensuite apartments always book up first - including families.

[Ben McNevis]

I knew I could count on you lot to give a swift and decisive answer.

I think I heard Mrs F sharpening kitchen knives a moment ago.

I'd love to do a disabled bedroom and bathroom, and we do have a level entrance at the back and no steps within the house downstairs but the snag is, it's a listed building so we can't widen doorways and I don't think a wet room would either look right or go down well with the planning authority. I'll look into what can be done for a non-wet disabled bathroom though.

I would be perfectly happy with 2 en-suites plus a family bathroom but the layout doesn't lend itself to that. If we put in a family bathroom upstairs, it has to go in one of the large bedrooms. So we either get a bathroom 14 x 12 ft or split the room into two and maybe have 2 bathrooms (overkill in my opinion). The other way, having the family bathroom as the one downstairs and two en-suites upstairs is nearly OK but having to go downstairs to the bathroom isn't ideal in my opinion.

No nearer a solution then!

[carolb]

I'd like to go for en-suites for all bedrooms. You don't have to use any of the bedroom windows for them either - hotels certainly don't. Also looking at the potential re-sale value, as a B&B or for a large family it would help to sell. Alternatively, have two ensuites on the first floor for two 'master bedrooms' and the other two bedrooms share a communal bathroom from the 14x12 room, but split the 14x12 room into two - one becomes the 'family' bathroom and what is left over becomes an additional room, utility, study, small bedroom, small tv room or whatever.

I once stayed in someone's house and they had four large bedrooms on the first floor with two bathrooms which were side by side and neither were en-suite - very weird.

[la vache!]

My property doesn't lend itself at all to en-suites so I'm probably stuffed for the future, but it hasn't been a problem so far. As long as the ratio is 4 people per bathroom and toilet minimum.
I'd rather have decent sized bedrooms than en-suites and a bedroom with a little double bed jammed up against the wall and no room to swing a cat!

[greenbarn]

My 2p worth.
Ensuites sell; as the number of properties with ensuites grows, guests will start to dismiss properties without.

If your market includes groups of adults, the more ensuites the better. Put yourself in the shoes of a group looking for accommodation, and the benefit of more ensuites is clear. The need for a "communal" bathroom sounds like it's taken care of by the downstairs room. If there's a chance that parents don't like the idea of their small offspring having access to an ensuite, put external locks on them (the doors, not the children).

Thoughts: is the water system up to providing 5 showers simultaneously? You might need to budget for a massive unvented hot water cylinder to provide enough hot water at mains pressure. Likewise the drainage - that okay?

[Ben McNevis]

Yes, GB, the hot water and heating is a bit of a tricky one too. There's no gas, I really don't want to invest in an oil tank and boiler as I don't believe that there will be oil available to burn in 10 years time. So, its Economy-7 and logs. That requires big heat store tanks and an awful lot of sensors, logic, pumps and switches. There's someone working on it. The good thing is that we can use a plate heat exchanger to get huge flows of hot water at mains pressure.

[charles cawley]

In Herefordshire / Shropshire and adjoining counties, we've seen a radical change the market towards en suites.

A good quality local let for 8 converted to all ensuite in early January this year. Their booking takings are now nearly twice what they were last year. Families from towns, used to one bathroom and managing its use in the morning, find this a real holiday luxury. Those who are chosing to stay in the UK, in preference to the usual foreign trip, tend to expect them.

I was shocked when faced with the evidence that the advice I gave over a year ago was out of date. The trends were changing, even as I was saying that en-suites were not as important for self catering as for hotels and b&b.

If I had the choice (and the funds) I would always install ensuites in holiday lets in our area.

[CarolineH]

I think that it depends very much on your market. I have five gites : one small one with one downstairs bathroom, one two bedroomed, both with ensuites, two 3-beds with one ensuite and one family bathroom and one 3-bed with all ensuites.

The 3-bed with all ensuites is adapted for disabled people - but apart from that market it doesn't get booked any quicker than the other 3-bedroomed gites - my mostly family guests don't see it as a high priority. HOWEVER - for out of season lets, it is very popular with three couple type bookings. The two bedroomed gites are priced differently and have equal number of bookings - there are people who look for budget holiday and other people who want to pay for a bit of luxury.

The reason that I did ensuites in a couple of gites was for the possibility of B&B in the future - I don't do it but if there is a possibility of running a B&B, ensuites are a must. Think of this for resale value, even if you don't want to do it yourself.

[RichardHenshall]

Our property is 3 bedrooms, all en-suite, with an extra loo for daytime/visitors.

As an aside when we were originally looking at properties we came across one which had two en-suite bathrooms in the master bedroom (his and hers?). I think that's too many.