A drawer full of broken china... Opinions welcomed!

[Lovely Lucca]

So a group of people stayed our house. When they arrived they said they noticed that a deep drawer full of crockery in the kitchen was a bit dodgy so they took out all the china & put it on the table.

They didn't inform our house manager of this who would have immediately got someone in to fix it, & she would have also told our lovely cleaner (this is relevant to what happened next).

The cleaner then went in to clean, & put all the crockery back in the drawer.

When the guests came home, one of the party opened the drawer & the unit crashed to the floor. The guy tried to take the weight of the drawer but the drawer front fell onto his toe.

It doesn't seem to have caused his toe major damage, however it did break nearly £200 worth of china.

While I don't dispute that the drawer was genuinely dodgy if they say so - I think they're decent people - the fact is that when we were there at Easter it was fine & none of our tenants since then reported a problem - including tenants who have us a very detailed online review. Nor had the cleaner noticed any problem.

We can't fix something if we don't know there's a problem.

In the circumstances what would you consider fair in terms of payment for breakages. Is it fair to ask them to contribute to the cost of replacing the china? (I'm not considering asking the full amount in the circumstances).

We use Villeroy & Boch vitrified porcelain service which is much tougher than ordinary china & used in hotels. Due to this, in 8 years of letting & frequent family use we have only had to replace 1 saucer & a plate.

The family involved 'suggest' that we should use cheaper china. as last year they managed to break a large platter & a 2 soup bowls. But the fact is that their attrition rate is vastly higher in 2 weeks than the entire of 8 years of lettings...

Opinions would be most welcome.

[Normandie]

If you believe the story, I don't think you can ask for a contribution. Unfortunately. But that's just me. Other opinions available I'm sure. I guess the cleaner backs up the story about all crockery being out on the table?

Would your property contents insurance cover this accident?

[FelicityA]

I think we all at some time find something broken/dodgy/non-functioning/stained etc. after the fact, and it is quite impossible to know which guest might be to blame as we might have just missed it (or in your case, the cleaner might not have noticed - she didn't obviously notice the drawer was dodgy when she put the china back IN) so I don't think you can blame them for the dodgy drawer.

Therefore I would not be asking them for anything in the way of compensation as it is probably not their fault the drawer was broken and they had made best efforts taking everything out to keep it safe! It is unfortunate they did not tell the cleaner but if I were in your position I would just take it on the chin. It would not stop me feeling irritated that they had not told anybody, and a bit sad about the nice china though. Sorry, Lucca, my opinion is probably not one you wanted to hear.

[Giddy Goat]

My reaction was the same as yours Felicity. They meant well and what followed was just an unfortunate chain of circs.

[Lovely Lucca]

Thanks for your replies. I sort of agree, but at the same time, we didn't charge them last year for the platter & the bowls that they broke, as they said they'd like to come back this year. (I said I'd waive the charge if they booked again with us).

The platter alone cost £80 to replace.

They want to come back next year but I don't think we can afford to have them again!

I know that our house insurance in the UK has a £200 premium (ie you pay the first £200) so if the Italian insurance is similar there's no point making a claim.

I guess I don't really understand how a drawer could have gone from completely fine to disastrous without previous tenants or the cleaners noticing.

I do believe their story sort of, but I guess I'm not 100% convinced.

[Hells Bells]

I have a pull out kitchen drawer at home . I no longer keep anything breakable in it after it collapsed unexpectedly.
Previous guests may not have used the china, or noticed anything wrong with the drawer. Ours came apart without warning. Fortunately there was only a couple of plates chipped.
I don't think it is fair to charge them anything. You can't take into account past history on this occasion.

[FelicityA]

Lucca (sorry for getting your name wrong first time...). I hadn't realised they had broken YOUR stuff last year. I thought they were just telling you about another holiday and how they break things often! I still would stick with not asking for compensation though, hard though it is for you and at least they are not looking for compensation for the toe!

[greenbarn]

Sorry, but I agree with the view that you can't charge them. It's unfortunate that the whole lot was broken, but if the drawer collapsed that's the likely outcome. Whereas I don't believe you have any grounds to seek compensation from them, they could have grounds to seek compensation from you if the drawer was faulty and caused injury - assuming their story is true, of course.

we didn't charge them last year for the platter & the bowls that they broke.......

The platter alone cost £80 to replace.

They broke what are presumably items supplied for everyday use. Items in that category will get broken; they're consumables and part of running the business, and I don't think it's realistic to charge guests for purely accidental damage. If they'd left a plate on a hot hob and it had shattered, that's negligent and a different matter, but a plate broken accidentally is simply that - an accident. What it cost is your choice, not the guests', and presumably in line with the rental rate and the margin built in for annual maintenance, wear and tear and replacements,

[Ju]

I agree with greenbarn's view.

I also think that the cleaner is somewhat responsible. If ALL the china was out of the drawer then it would seem sensible to at least look at the drawer to see if there is a problem.

(I am NOT suggesting that the cleaner pays of course)

I think your property is beautiful - but you have prices to match. I can see why you would want to have beautiful china but it is unreasonable to charge guests such high prices and expect them to pay £££ for breakages. It amounts to about 6% of their weekly rental, an amount that most of us would take on the chin.

[Big Sis..]

If the guests bothered to get all the china and put it on the table it shows there was a problem with the drawer, if not why would they bother ...
I actually think you are lucky that the guest didnt break a toe because I think you or your cleaner who put the stuff back in the drawer would be liable.

As others have said.........

The fact that you have to pay the first £200 of a claim is irrelevent....... I have insurance on my houses in Spain and in the UK, and pay extra, so that the excess is less, so Im sure thats an option as well.

Sorry Luccaxx

Take Care Rosxx

[French Cricket]

I agree with everyone else too - okay, so the guests may not have reported the drawer but they did take the crockery out of it, which is more than most would have done ....

I don't even think that's relevant though - what's happened was clearly accidental, and to ask guests to pay for true accidental damage is just not reasonable, in my book. (I'd be horrified, as a guest).

In proportion to your rental charges the amount we're talking about is really not much at all - at my rental rates the equivalent would be replacing a good frying or casserole pan, and I wouldn't think twice about that .....

[pepsipuss]

Afraid I am with the others, Lucca. It is hard to swallow but it has to be seen as a cost of doing business.

[Lovely Lucca]

Well it's unanimous, I won't charge them...

Thanks very much for everyone's input, it's very helpful.

I won't be inviting them back though!

[Lovely Lucca]

They broke what are presumably items supplied for everyday use. Items in that category will get broken; they're consumables and part of running the business, and I don't think it's realistic to charge guests for purely accidental damage. If they'd left a plate on a hot hob and it had shattered, that's negligent and a different matter, but a plate broken accidentally is simply that - an accident. What it cost is your choice, not the guests', and presumably in line with the rental rate and the margin built in for annual maintenance, wear and tear and replacements,

I think your property is beautiful - but you have prices to match. I can see why you would want to have beautiful china but it is unreasonable to charge guests such high prices and expect them to pay £££ for breakages. It amounts to about 6% of their weekly rental, an amount that most of us would take on the chin.

I have to say I disagree with these comments. I have never rented a holiday property myself where there was not a hefty security deposit & any breakages were taken out of that, accidental or otherwise.

Moreover, this is the policy of our agent, who has been in the business 20 years & rents out his own house. We also looked at Tuscany Now & Saloggi.com, two big rental agencies before choosing our smaller agent, and paying for accidental breakages is standard procedure there too.

Ours is a luxury property, we make that very clear on the listing. It has designer furniture & antiques, everything in the house is good quality. People considering staying at our house know that from the get go. So I totally disagree that it's not the guests' choice, it's *precisely* their choice. They know that if you damage an antique, for example, you are going to be faced with a higher bill than if it had been an Ikea equivalent. For that reason I wouldn't take a bunch of young children to stay in one of the lovely Palazzos to rent in the area, because I know that replacing something there is going to cost more than a budget place.

The fact is that because our china is so tough we have had far, far fewer breakages than would have been the case with cheap china, which chips & smashes easily. As I have said, excepting this particular family, we have only had to replace 2 crockery items in 8 years. Moreover, we get a lot of positive feedback from guests about how nice it is to cook with really good quality stuff.

Generally, thus far, touch wood, all our guests have treated the house amazingly well & usually the breakage charges are next to nothing.

[Normandie]

It is hard to swallow but it has to be seen as a cost of doing business.

For me, it's more the cost of not being able to say that it was 100% guest carelessness that caused the damage. The faulty drawer is part of the fixtures and fittings and if it contributed to the accident, one can't charge the guests. Even if they should have had the gumption to alert "management" to the problem. But I guess they didn't think it was serious, they'd got a workaround until they reported it and I suppose they were in holiday "laid back" mode.

If a pile of plates en route to table and dishwasher was dropped, I would probably charge for that. And I agree with you Lucca that if someone is renting luxury, it is their choice to be very careful... or expect to pay luxury prices when something breaks.

As an aside, I'm not sure I'd trust £/€200 worth of crockery (or anything similarly breakable) to one drawer!