Would you turn this booking down?

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A-two
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Would you turn this booking down?

Post by A-two »

I can only think of putting my finger in the air and judging the direction of the breeze to know how to answer this inquiry.

The red flag is in this part of the inquirer's third letter in as many days...."I realize the house sleeps eight with the loft's extra bedroom and you mentioned 8 was the maximum even with day visitors. Though we will not have other sleeping guests, (only the five of us), I would like to have had my sister and some friends once to have dinner together, which may bring the total guests to about ten for one afternoon. Would that be a problem? I would rather ask up front than have someone tell you there appeared to be more than eight people for a day and let you think I was not truthful with you."

In the same letter she tells me how disappointed she is to find out the week she really wanted is now booked, as it's her 40th birthday that week. I sold it to someone else while she was debating with herself whether she could take her kids out of school as she wasn't sure when they finished exams. Now that week is no longer an option, she's considering the following week, but the kids would still miss 3 days of school. She can't make the following week because she has to rush back to do her company's year end accounts (she's the CFO).

This sounds like to me like someone trying to squueze in a party, not have a relaxing family holiday, or am I being too sceptical?
Hells Bells
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Post by Hells Bells »

No, I wouldn't turn it down. I've never 'got it' over everyones hangups about having an extra person or two over for dinner. Asl ong as the place is kept clean and tidy and nothing is damaged, what's the problem? I wouldn't be bothered about an extra dinner guest or two. Why not charge an extra large damage deposit if your worried?
Nightowl
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Post by Nightowl »

No, I wouldn't turn it down either, even 10 people don't make much more of a party than 8 would.... sounds like she is trying to be reassuring and in the process has got you worried further, but if she really wanted to be devious and trash the place I'm sure she wouldn't say anything. Sounds like she's probably the type who would own up to break a tumbler and insist on paying for it.

But at the end of the day, it's your house and if you have got a gut feeling something is not quite right then I think you have to act on it.
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Guest3
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Post by Guest3 »

I personally wouldn't object to clients inviting guests to visit for the day or evening. We have had quite a few 'celebration' holiday bookings where the clients' family/friends already live in the area and the focal point has been a gathering at the villa. However, what I would object to are the extra 'guests' staying for part or the duration of the holiday without our knowledge! We state on our T&C's that only the persons named on the booking form are allowed to stay at the villa. So far no-one has abused this rule...and believe me we would know as we have very nosey neighbours!!
A-two
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Post by A-two »

Thanks very much for the response. I suppose it does seem a little overcautious. I'll phone tomorrow to discuss in more detail, but it's a once bitten kind of thing. If she really means 10, then I don't have a problem, but I'm willing to bet that number will grow until she's invalidated all my insurances, so I am still not comfortable with it.

Last year, we approved a similar "small family BBQ for a few friends", and thought we were covered by extra security deposit. What a joke. 22 cars and a people mover minivan arrived, also about another 6 boat loads pulled up onto the beach for the day. We lost count, but roughly 250-300 people showed up. Needless to say they lost their deposit.

Two years earlier, our first and only bride and groom had permission for various friends to pop in and out during their honeymoon week, but we knew nothing about a party for 50+ people organized by their professional wedding planner for the night before the wedding. They had balloons tied to the lamposts for 1/2 a mile with big signs saying "cocktail party this way". We couldn't even say anything because they had invited us to the wedding next day.

I take as much security deposit as we dare (I tried doubling it this year, but had to lower it again as the inquiries dried up), but anyone making a big thing about how honest they are, then being vague about numbers when pressed, well, that sends a big red flag up for me.

The Hamptons is hot for Manhattan people & their lavish summer parties, (remember The Great Gatsby with Robert Redford?). Our little place is a bargain compared to renting even a marquee tent in a vineyard, and it comes with a private beach. They pay more for a day there than we charge for a whole week - mind boggling I know - I find it obscene what some people are spending on a party. They don't even care about losing their deposit with us, it's still a bargain. These folks are only a tiny percentage of the inquiries we get, but we do definitely get them and much like the spammers, I need a lie detector test to filter them out. Mine's getting better, but not foolproof yet, that's the real problem.

In the meantime, I'm thinking about changing our policy to no thanks, not the first time you rent from us, but when we know you a little better, it's one of the privileges of repeat bookings. (We don't take secuirty deposits for repeat bookings either.)

P.S: I just realized I posted this in the wrong section - sorry about that.
CostaBlanca
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Post by CostaBlanca »

Joanna, your past experiences have shown that you have every right to be wary. If you are still concerned after talking to her and you have still time to get a booking for the same period, I wouldn´t go ahead with her reservation.

Maria
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Ju
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Post by Ju »

I wouldn't turn it down, but equally I understand why you are concerned.

I think phoning her is a good idea, it is often much easier to get to the bottom of things by phone rather than e-mail.

Ju
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debk
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Post by debk »

Joanna, I'm not sure if you can do this in NY but our contract states that any parties, meetings, etc. -- basically more than the agreed to number of original guests on the premises -- results in an immediate termination of occupancy and loss of all funds paid. The reason for the eviction is that some people will happily lose the deposit for a nice party place. "Immediate loss of occupancy" stings.

Like Crystal, we regularly get people here (Portuguese descendants) with family in the area. In those situations, we gently remind about the party clause and talk about all plans for 'family dinners'. In addition, when they check-in, I document the exact day and maximum number of dinner guests on the contract, i.e., writing/initialing a very specific waiver. Once, when I did this, the guests called later to say they had decided to move to a restaurant. In actuality, I think they knew I was dead serious and their little "party" was going to land them on the street in the middle of the night.

In Jan/Feb, we had an actor and his family rent our main house for seven weeks. (Our first long term let. Learned a lot.) One afternoon, my husband saw their young daughter on the front step coloring lots of little "party here" signs. She proudly displayed her artwork and explained that the Miss Saigon Cast Party was going to be at the house that night. :shock:

My husband mentioned the party clause to the actor/dad and his wife called later, quite frantic, insisting it would be small and quiet. We approved it because they had proven themselves very responsible over the weeks... and they knew we were on top of it. But, again, I am confident it was only the "immediate eviction" part that had them up-in-arms about their unapproved get-together.

Just another idea for the pot. I'm sure you'll learn a good deal from the phonecall. Good luck!
debk
A-two
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Post by A-two »

Debk,
Very helpful, thank you. An eviction clause may be the answer I'm looking for, but it could only be a paper tiger. There's no way I could physically remove anyone from the property without a court order, which would take far longer than any duration of their stay. Would they know that? More than likely. Do you think it is just your threat of giving them serious trouble that is the deterrent? Or can you/have you actually followed thru and enforced an eviction, and if so, how?

Thanks
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debk
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Post by debk »

Hi, Joanna - Funny you should ask. I just PMd with someone about the clause and added the caution that it would probably never hold up in court. (I should add that our agreement also has a separate clause that the guests have no tenancy rights, etc.) So, no, we've never evicted. What we do is make it very, very clear that we are willing to evict. Who wants to hassle with that?

I'm very upfront about all this with guests. If I get a bad feeling, I will email a final time before booking to basically say: "I have to admit that we are concerned about your booking. As I've mentioned, our neighborhood is extremely quiet and our neighbors know to call us at any hour if they are inconvenienced by our guests. I know that our no-party clause may seem a bit draconian but we are very serious about immediate termination and loss of all funds. Please do not rent our property if you have any plans for parties, loud arrivals at 5am after a night of Lisbon's famed nightlife, etc.... you deserve a place that you can enjoy and ours would only ruin that type of vacation. If, however, you are looking for a peaceful haven after a day of enjoying Lisbon, the house may be perfect for you."

OK, I just made that response up but it's similar to other things I've written and I'm not going to edit more. I think you get the idea.

My goal is to make it extremely attractive for party-types to look elsewhere.

(One advantage for us is that we are in Portugal and who would want to initiate a legal process in Portugal against us? It would probably take them about 10 years to get an initial hearing.)

Push come to shove, if a guest were offending our neighbors I would not hesitate to tell them to leave, mid-party even. (I've thought it through: I would start emptying the refrigerator for them and send them to pack their bags.) I'll bend over backwards for our guests -- as our guestbook illustrates -- but I've zero patience with those who are inconsiderate or dishonest.
debk
ps - OK. It helps that my husband's nickname is Arnie, aka Schwarzenegger. In actuality, he's a mushy sweetheart poetry type stuck in a jock's body... but a couple of times I have asked him to do a questionable check-in. :lol: :lol: :lol:
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Fraise
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Post by Fraise »

Mmm, very nice indeed :lol: Didn't know it was THAT kind of a site :wink: :wink:
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Alan Knighting
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Post by Alan Knighting »

I have no idea whether or not the same system exists in Portugal but in Spain there is a thing called "denuncio" (or something like that).

In effect, you complain about (denounce) someone to the local court. You have to have a prima facie case of course. The next day you both must appear in front of the judge; you explain your complaint and they must explain themselves to the court's satisfaction. It's not for big or complex issues but I am told it can be useful for settling minor disputes.

Alan
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debk
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Post by debk »

yes, well, when he sweetly looks down at you and says how "nice it is to finally meet you and we appreciate your understanding about our non-party clause, because, gracious i would hate to have to physically remove your slightly tipsy uncle and family..." it, um, works. so far anyway. :wink:

i assume we will eventually have a problem -- and then i'll come here straightaway for sympathy and support!
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debk
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Post by debk »

Interesting, Alan. I don't know if Portugal has anything similar but I'll ask our attorney next time I email with her to ask for a bill. (She's quite amazing, always on top of everything -- except sending invoices.)

Thanks for the tip,
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Normandy Cow
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Post by Normandy Cow »

Wow Deb! Is that really your husband? He looks rather hunky! 8)
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