Paying for independent feedback

[charles cawley]

We have decided to try out an independent feedback service.

This was prompted by some really helpful, though at times challenging, discussion in a recent post in Bookings entitled: 'Signs for 2013. Reductions on pay per click bidding prices'

Take a look at http://www.feefo.com/en/en/reviews/Coun ... &id=377108

It is quite frightening, but there should be no hiding place for people who do not care for the quality of what they sell. We settled on Feefo.com although Reevoo.com put up a good fight. Thank you to all for giving us a kick to try this experiment.

[Lindisfarne]

That really prompted you and you have done it very quickly

Good luck with it !!


You have obviously done it for the right reasons but I think some agencies have other things on their mind including :

Increase clicks on your Google ads with Seller Ratings

Wont bore everybody with the article

[charles cawley]

I can't deny that the financial side came into it; then, again, if you get the quality right it will anyway.

I will keep you informed of how it turns out.

[january]

A quote from the feedback site: ( I assume Bill is not related )

Bill Cawley enjoys buying
and selling on eBay. One day,
when buying a part for an old
lawnmower, it occurred to him
that nobody would buy anything
on eBay if it were not for the
feedback from previous satisfied
buyers. If this is true for eBay,
why should it not be true for any
other business – online or offline?

There is a huge difference between this feedback site and ebay feedback in that the only way ebay feedback can be placed is if someone genuinely buys an item from the seller.
Also everyone understands how ebay feedback works, whereas very few people would know about Feedo, and would never find it without the link from the sellers website.
Feedo and similar sites are easily manipulated by unscrupulous traders, I for one would not trust a review placed on it.
Websites such as Feedo offer no benefit to retailer or consumer, neither do they have any interest in promoting better consumer experience
Just the latest in a long line of money spinning web ventures.

[charles cawley]

This seems a very unkind response. My brother is an employee now and does not control the company. His remaining shareholding is, I am told, 5%. We very nearly went with Reevoo. I am proud Bill has done something remarkable, do you think he got there by creating a substandard fly by night product? Perhaps you do not know that I fell out with the family and was only on frosty terms for 30 years when living in the East End of London in Bow. Then again, you assumed.

You say it can be manipulated, could you tell me how? If you look at some of the feedback we have received, you will find that we are far from perfect. People not wishing to do the right thing would have censored one of the negative feedbacks. Several heavyweight companies use Feefo, as you can see from the site,... implying that they might be engaged in deception or fraudulent behaviour should be substantiated.

Feefo feedback people are sent e-mails when they stay at our cottages after their stay. They respond accordingly. It would be futile and counter-productive to play games as the key is to get information 'warts and all' to improve the quality of goods and services. Feefo is as much about getting the quality of products right as about giving an impression to customers.

Quality needs good information so suppliers can learn to improve. What would be the point of playing games trying to dodge reality? The most valuable feedback is often the most upsetting. Good businesses know that and value it immensley. Larger businesses will, sometimes, go through seven shades of hell to ensure that the value of their brands is kept intact. Quality matters; deception and trickery end up with substandard quality and are counter productive except for small time thieves and some employees in financial institutions.

You say: "Websites such as Feedo offer no benefit to retailer or consumer, neither do they have any interest in promoting better consumer experience." You could not be more wrong. These services are proliferating fast because they give no hiding place for poor quality or bad attitudes... especially in middle management in companies. Do you really think we at Country Holiday Lets are not interested in better experiences for holiday guests? Such an attitude would be suicidal. The feedbacks ensures all management finds out very quickly what is going on and provide excellent information to not only improve quality but to motivate people to get things right.

For instance, after the bad experience when someone did not understand what 'pet friendly' meant we added this link to pet friendly cottages entitled 'What Pet Friendly means': countryholidaylets.co.uk/component/content/article/2-holiday-cottages/53-what-pet-friendly-means

To help us improve, if you feel this service can "be easily manipulated by unscrupulous traders", please tell us how, so we can go back to Feefo and ask what they are doing about it. Your positive help (feedback?) would be hugely appreciated. Change is coming and only businesses that recognise that good information is essential to getting things right will survive.

Sometimes change is not welcome. This is not going to go away. At the risk of advertising for Feefo take a look at some of their customers: http://www.feefo.com/en/en/info/Testimonials

(A major reason why we considered Reevoo is that Hoseasons, a business that takes no prisoners, uses them for their Cottages4You operation. I am no fan of Hoseasons, but you ignore them at your peril).[/url]

[CSE]

So how does this Feefo get hold of your customers email addresses, Charles? I assume you pass them on. Is that legal? As I understand it, under regulations you must not disclose any of one's customers personal information to any other party.

[january]

Charles, firstly my apologies, I did not, and could not have known of your personal circumstances.

Review manipulation is easy; just get a few email addresses from Yahoo etc. Send details of a bogus client together with accommodation dates and one of your email addresses to Feefo, then when contacted place your own review.

With ebay this is not possible, feedback can only be placed by an actual buyer since everything is within the same site.

I think that if a client genuinely enjoyed or indeed had a bad experience, they will put a review into Tripadvisor without the necessity of contact from a third party.

I love getting spontaneous emails from people who enjoyed their holiday, my pet hate is having to ask clients for reviews.

[charles cawley]

casasantoestevo

Our privacy policy states that we can use details in limited situations but that anyone can opt out of these limited arrangements if they wish. We never pass on information so that third parties can market to others or pass on to third parties for this purpose.

These aspects appear our privacy policy and are also mentioned in our terms and conditions. We consider these undertakings as strict and very important to the extent that even we have only once done an e-mail shot to all customers in nearly 3 years. We do plan one in January but do not expect to do another for several months after that.

It is a reasonable practice which many companies use so, although no legal expert, with appropriate and fair terms and privacy policies, it appears correct.

January

Thank you for your understanding.

We expect to get hundreds of reviews over the years, if not, thousands. It may be possible to rig up some self-defeating scheme, but good would that do? Feefo, Reevoo etc: can recognise IP numbers and are quite capable of seeing through quite a few tricks... it is in their interests to police behaviour and not to be manipulated otherwise people will suspect... just as you have.

The point of the system is as much, if not more, to get the quality right, not to try to deceive. We are all facing a terrifying economic tidal wave, companies which might try such tricks are doomed.

In any case, we have to give order numbers... which, I suppose, you could again say are fixed. We will be required to automate information flow so that whenever a real booking is made, the information is automatically sent to Feefo so cutting us out of the loop. Many businesses already do this and our developers are working on this now.

Aside from small concerns like us, what has a large business to gain from playing games? The sheer time, effort, cost and bother, not to say the danger of being found out, would make the whole thing not worth the candle. The quality aspect would be lost, as well as keeping the managers on their toes.

Cottages4You, not my favourite booking service, for instance, now has 24,000 reviews. Fixing this would be a titanic job. I agree, with our paltry 30 or so, (it is very early days), the numbers thing would be easier, but trying to fool Feefo would not be so clever. Paypal has similar methods to stop people, for instance, from bidding up their own sales.

There should be no escape for poor service and quality.

Trip Advisor does not really apply to us as we are looking to improve our service as a booking agent. It also restricts the right to reply when longer replies are often essential.


Edit.
I am sorry Cottages4You has over 26,000 reviews: https://www.google.co.uk/products/selle ... d=0CDMQwQY

[CSE]

Sorry Charles after reading the paragraphs address to me, I cannot see how this works. As I understand passing on private information to third parties is not legal. Customers can only opt in if they want to. You must not force them to opt out. However this begin an EU directive means that nothing is written in plain English (or any other language when it comes to it).

[charles cawley]

No one can force people to share information.

In the UK, if you do not opt out when the opportunity is offered and the terms of any sharing are in a privacy policy and contract that holds as an agreement.

Some countries have more demanding requirements than others. As for the byzantine EU rules... many of us in the UK are not so keen on the EU, but the UK often enforces UK regulations with an enthusiasm lacking in some aspects in other member countries.

[CSE]

Be it EU or UK laws I am all for my privacy.
This is what Ofcom says: http://consumers.ofcom.org.uk/2012/10/d ... ing-email/

Besides the EU directive (not a law) does extend on to all websites that are accessible within the EU. Hence the reason why Google my be in a spot of bother. Plus the likes of BBC and other websites all give information about the data they can collect on you and the opt outs you can do.

In Spain we have different laws, but it is thought Spain's legislation will eventually incorporate the directive.

[charles cawley]

I am astonished by the negativity.

Attending an early legal conference in the Lloyds Building in London in 1997, we were told that written permission was needed before anyone could link to another web site. Had the lawyers had their way the internet as we now know it would never have developed.

Nothing has been said in a positive way about improving services and products. Nothing has been said about the way this sort of system gives poor service and poor quality no hiding place.

Sometimes, I feel that English attitudes to progress and trying to make things better are far from restricted to England. So what do you think about the quality improvement aspects? Do you think it a good or bad thing that businesses are trying to provide better goods and services?

What dangers are there in it for people? Whether you like it or not these trends are happening. If I followed the advice of those Lawyers, my previous successful company would have never existed. The Huffington Post would never have existed. Google would have been outlawed, indeed, all search engines would have been killed off. To suggest this is a good idea would be seen by some as close to Luddite.

Change is coming. We struggle with change and do our best to keep up. Those businesses that do not or will not adapt to change will not survive as the reality of this economic crisis hits.

What positive ideas do you have?

[Nemo]

Well I've had a read through of your reviews Charles and am liking your responses.

It is a big risk to open yourself up to the possibility of a great deal of nit picking, by the guests, as there is much you can like, and many things you could dislike when renting a cottage. Particularly the weather factor which if only we could influence!

You have clearly applied much thought to the whole review process and found one that you hope will work for you. I don't think I've yet come across feefo, but I'm sure in time I will.

I hope it gives you the boost to your business that you wish for. It certainly all looks promising so far.

[charles cawley]

Thank you Nemo.

I know this forum is mainly for owners so, to an extent, we are tolerated contributors. As guests, we do not want to seem to display bad manners.

It is a risky experiment and we could end up reversing out of it licking our wounds. None of us can be certain what is going to happen but we felt that doing nothing was the worst option.

The market is changing and things could be radically different in the next year or so. These trends are interesting for outsiders, for us and for those actually providing the cottages and running them, they are more immediate and absolute.

Apart from changing our website to be clear about what 'Pet Friendly' means we noted the classic mirror / hair dryer problem for another holiday let and have contacted the owner with this useful information.

The generosity of those who have stayed and bothered, free of charge, to help us with this feedback... even those who were not pleased, is something any half decent business should be grateful for. In some ways, it does seem strange to pay for bad feedback, and I get quite upset when it comes in. But that's life and it is valuable.

[CSE]

Sorry Charles you see my comments as negative. I am trying to engage you in a conversation, more than the majority of the forum membership. However I am just asking questions directly. You have come onto this forum and said how good this company is, but you have failed to directly answer the points I have raised. How does the practice of passing email address, names and possibly other private information to third parties stay within the law? For me trying to comply with the law is quite important. But I am not holier than thou!


It is nothing to do with negative English attitudes. Or do I pick you up on your comment about the EU Byzantine rules?


This is the second thread about changes coming. Well maybe they will and maybe they will not the way you see them. When is that going to be? What changes are going to happen? How do you think this company will overtake the likes of mega giant TA? Will customers trust something that you pay for rather then being totally independent? The more questions you throw up the more questions it raises about the whole process.