Noise!

If you are planning to buy a rental home, or you're thinking about what to do with one you have just acquired, this is the place for any questions about starting out in the rentals business.
Joe H
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Location: salisbury

Noise!

Post by Joe H »

Hi all,
I recently posted about our plans to start up a holiday letting apartment from our home in Wiltshire.
Having moved back to the house a month ago, we are becoming increasingly aware of the noise from the Salisbury Plains, which we are nestled within.
Basically, the Salisbury Plains are the training grounds for the army, and as such, they occasionally train with long range artillery guns, and the helicopters are often flying overhead.
It seems much noisier nowdays than it did when we used to live there, although this could be simply because we are now cautious of it.
Now we obviously can do nothing about the noise, although they should not be flying directly overhead, but our questions are:
1 - Should we cancel our plans altogether and invest somewhere else? This would be awful! The house is lovely, and the fishing on river Avon would be the main attraction.
2 - Should I put a disclaimer on the website? Maybe I could even make the army aspect a USP?
3 - how should we approach this if people complain? We can't find information on when training will happen - and when the long range guns are used, it can be extremely noisy till about 9pm!
Getting increasingly worried that our plans will fall through!
Kind regards,
Joe
ianh100
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Post by ianh100 »

How long have you been back there and noticed the extra activity? It could be that there is some particular training going on that is only for a few weeks.

We stayed in dorset at a hoiday park in Dorset serveral times without issue but we were then back during november and there was a lot of very heavy artilary, I assume at Lulworth (quiet a few miles away) the caravan walls would shake when a shell landed!

Perhaps you could ask the local MOD site?
Wendy@NorthIdaho
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Post by Wendy@NorthIdaho »

If fishing is a big draw, fishermen may not care about the noise, I would go with option #2 that you mentioned. See if you can't turn this into a positive of some sort... is there any sort of Army Museum or historical aspects that may be a draw connected with the site?

A must would be mentioning the noise factor so you don't find yourself apologizing for what you can't fix or needing to refund to someone that had no idea it was noisy and they thought they were going to be visiting a quiet retreat!

No need to overplay it but don't de-emphasize it either, tricky balance no doubt... if there is anyway to speak with someone from the site to get their own "noise rules", hours permitted, etc.. your town may even have that info, that could be helpful to pass onto guests.

All the best,
Wendy
New Vacation Rental called DayStar Lodge! (Sold Narrows Cottage now have a rental management company called A-List Rental Management)
salmoncottage
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Post by salmoncottage »

If I was a prospective guest who was booking with you after stumbling across your own website full of fantastic images of your house and surroundings, then during my stay I discovered what you have just posted about noise etc I would seriously consider complaining to you and I certainly wouldn't return or recommend it to family or friends who wanted a peaceful country break. If on the other hand you had mentioned all that within your website I just wouldn't book in the first place, sorry.. :cry: Then there is the risk of future unflattering comments on certain well known review sites to consider that could seriously affect future business. You might attract a few army enthusiasts or fishermen like railway type properties do, but will it be enough to pay its way?
Spending a small fortune on sound insulation and triple glazing might help but what about summer BBQ's or evening strolls?
Surely you have to at least compare what you might spend on this possible venture with a similar sized property in a less risky location and see how it looks first.
'Oh, I do like to be beside the seaside'
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French Cricket
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Post by French Cricket »

Oh dear. I'm with salmoncottage, I'm afraid - absolutely vital to mention it on your site and all advertising material, and somewhere very obvious too, so that people can make an informed choice whether to book or not. I have to say that I'm also one who wouldn't book - sorry :cry:

I think your difficulty is that your market is likely to be people looking for a peaceful countryside break, which involves being outside wherever possible, and it's exactly that which could be compromised by military noise. And of course there's not just the noise factor - which is enough of a PITA in its own right - but also the issue of restricted access to much of the countryside.

The trouble with the army is that they don't seem to feel the need to adhere to any noise rules or to communicate with mere mortals who might be affected ....

I think you have a genuine dilemma, JoeH. If it were me, I think I'd be weighing up just how much of an investment was involved in creating your holiday accommodation, knowing that it might prove not to be viable in the longer term.
ccazes
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Post by ccazes »

It seems you have a house that suits your personal needs and you know the area well so before selling up and buying elsewhere I would do a bit of research first.

Have you asked around to see if noise and army activity has increased over the years? What do other local property owners do or what does the local tourist office say? I would also go round a few country pubs or small hotels/restaurants, the kind your guests would visit and ask the landlords about noise etc and how if affects their business and type of visitors they get. If others manage to make a living in the area then why not you?

As a prospective visitor, I would want to be warned of course about possible noise on your website or in the listing. Is it a few helicopters flying over in the course of an evening or is it continual? I have been on holiday in Scotland, the US and in France where airforce jets could be seen and firing guns heard but it was not all the time and it wasn't something that spoiled our holiday.
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Mouse
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Post by Mouse »

I think the suggestions on further research might help you decide one way or the other. What about having friends over and asking their opinion?
What do your neighbours think? Maybe it is noisier at certain times.

If all else fails you could do a video and put it on YouTube so that people can make up their own minds.

Noise is all relevent; I dislike traffic noise but it causes no problem whatsoever to my Mum (for example). Everyone is different.

Mousie
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p.s. is the noise only to be heard outside or also in the house? Would people spend time outside...i.e. do you have a garden?
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barbersdrove
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Post by barbersdrove »

I'm someone who wouldn not be put off by it, in fact my hubby would love it. I agree that going and doing more research is the best idea. When we have stayed in the Lake District we've been amazed by the large number of low flying jets were buzzing around the skys that come out of nowhere and scare you to death. We still love to go there though.
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B&B netherlands
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Post by B&B netherlands »

i just found this website:

https://www.gov.uk/government/uploads/s ... yplain.pdf

interesting information... 'live firing takes place on an average of 340 days a year.'
Joe H
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Post by Joe H »

Thanks for the replies everyone. I've clearly got a bit of research and some thinking to do.
Just to clarify, we moved back a week after Christmas, and so far only two evenings have heard loud artillery guns. We do however have helicopters that pass by maybe once every hour or so during the daytime. More often than not they are a distance away, and it's rare for them to pass overhead as they are prohibited.
I remember about six years ago we had to complain (we were living in the annex at the time, with the in-laws in the main house), as several times a day two Chinooks began to regularly fly over the actual house. It turned out to be the Americans training over here. They stopped flying overhead the next day.
I will spend the next few weeks logging what we hear and will to think seriously about it all.
As to local army attractions; there is indeed! The Museum of Army Flying is just down the road, which I have thoroughly enjoyed more than once.
As to 'live firing takes place on an average of 340 days a year' - it's quite a misleading statement. Live firing happens every day at the local clay pigeon shoot as well, but we don't hear that. It did however make me gulp when I first read it, and the pdf. mentioned a newsletter I will certainly be enquiring about. Hopefully information like that would let me know in advance to inform guests.
I'm hoping keeping a log of incidents will alleviate my concerns. But what is deemed acceptable?
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Windy
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Post by Windy »

Hmm

We sell our place (fairly I think) as being in the tranquil Troutbeck Valley

Occasionally we get the excitement of a Eurofighter Typhoon fighter on a low level sortie . Well reasonably often actually but we are very tranquil apart from that.

We have silence then noise for 30 seconds. Would I warn guests off because of that? No way. It's part of the Lakes in the same way that what you have is part of the Salisbury Plain.

Unless they start firing tank shells at your house I wouldn't get over concerned. Our guests have never complained.
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Normandie
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Post by Normandie »

French Cricket wrote:...but also the issue of restricted access to much of the countryside.
Access to much of the countryside isn't restricted... unless one is the sort of person who expects to park at any farm gate and walk over the land and the right to roam is actually not that extensive. And Salisbury Plain itself isn't a no-go area... there are plenty of areas to walk...
http://www.visitwiltshire.co.uk/explore ... bury-plain

My parents have lived near Salisbury Plain for the past 25 years so I'm well-used to hearing the crumps of shells exploding and watching the military helicopters flying over. I particularly noticed it last year when staying at my mother's for several months - but I was told there was extra training going on. It wasn't all day every day by any means.

That part of Wiltshire has a lot going for it, both ancient and modern - there's so much to see and do around Salisbury and quite apart from the Plain itself, it is a fabulous county for walking...

http://www.visitwiltshire.co.uk/things- ... ties/walks

...but a way for you to gauge how much disturbance there might be to guests is to Google lots of holiday properties locally and see what they say on their websites and possibly more importantly, what their reviews are like.

I don't think you have much of a dilemma. The background noise isn't nearly as intrusive as being near one of the motorways or major A roads for eg. It's part of the history and heritage of the area so don't ignore it but don't get too hung up on it either. Just don't present yourself as a haven of total silence and tranquility. But in crowded southern England, where is?
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French Cricket
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Post by French Cricket »

Apparently:
The MoD now own 150 square miles (390 km2) of land, making it the largest military training area in the United Kingdom. Of this, around 39 square miles (100 km2) are permanently closed to the public, and access is greatly restricted in other areas. The Royal School of Artillery is based at Larkhill, and live firing is conducted on the plain for approximately 340 days of each year. Military personnel from the UK and around the world spend some 600,000 man days on the plain every year.
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Normandie
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Post by Normandie »

So... ?

Ah, I see what you mean...
French Cricket wrote:Apparently:
The MoD now own 150 square miles (390 km2) of land, making it the largest military training area in the United Kingdom. Of this, around 39 square miles (100 km2) are permanently closed to the public, and access is greatly restricted in other areas.
You're right - in a county the size of Wiltshire, it is a comparitively small proportion of the countryside.
Last edited by Normandie on Sat Feb 16, 2013 9:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Nemo
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Post by Nemo »

Yes the noise wouldn't have been a shock for me. Holidaying in Norfolk all my life has led to a far greater exposure to the military than in other parts of the UK. I used to love the low flying planes whizzing by and part of the thrill of the journey was spotting the huge American cars driven by the yanks over here, and driving past the RAF bases.

So the important thing would be to subtly alert possible newcomers to the area of what goes on in and around the area. Plenty of research as Normandie and others have stated.

I remember reading about a new holiday complex that was next door to a race track. Can't imagine that is terribly peaceful!

The armed forces are a very important part of our country so I think in many ways a connection could be an interesting one to a tourist.
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