Hello
As we are trying to aim our villa at families, the subject of pool safety has come up. I have looked into costs of a safety fence and it is around £2,500.
Our dilemma is, do we spend that amount of money straight off with no guarantee of any bookings, and if we do get bookings they may not come from people with children. Or do we invest in the cheaper option of a pool alarm and upgrade to a fence at a later date if need be. Do you think people will be put off if there is no fence?
what do you think?
Michelle
Swimming Pool Safety Fence/Alarm
-
cromercrabholiday
- Posts: 797
- Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 10:24 am
- Location: North Norfolk
- Contact:
I remember when our daughter was crawling going to a villa with a pool and no safety at all. Eventually, we found that we could limit her to the patio at that side by tying up a small gate with string.
We've had friends who found their toddler at the bottom of a pool in Portugal after a ?boozy lunch when each thought the other was in charge. Fortunately, the mother's screams brought a neighbour who was a lifesaver who brought him round. He's currently at Oxford University, so no harm was done.
We fenced our home pool as we moved in - whether it was our own children or somebody else's, we didn't want to go there. Others may have views on alarms - personally, I'd still worry.
John
We've had friends who found their toddler at the bottom of a pool in Portugal after a ?boozy lunch when each thought the other was in charge. Fortunately, the mother's screams brought a neighbour who was a lifesaver who brought him round. He's currently at Oxford University, so no harm was done.
We fenced our home pool as we moved in - whether it was our own children or somebody else's, we didn't want to go there. Others may have views on alarms - personally, I'd still worry.
John
-
Alan Knighting
- Posts: 4120
- Joined: Mon Oct 18, 2004 7:26 am
- Location: Monflanquin, Lot-et-Garonne, France
Whatever the laws might be there is one fact that can not be avoided. The parent has the paramount responsibility for the safety and well-being of the child.
The existence or absence of a fence or an alarm does not enable the parent to shirk his/her responsibility.
Responsible owners install safe systems; responsible parents supervise and control their children. Even “piss artists� in Portugal are subject to the basic rule.
Accidents will happen but with much less frequency if we all recognise and adopt our respective responsibilities.
Alan
The existence or absence of a fence or an alarm does not enable the parent to shirk his/her responsibility.
Responsible owners install safe systems; responsible parents supervise and control their children. Even “piss artists� in Portugal are subject to the basic rule.
Accidents will happen but with much less frequency if we all recognise and adopt our respective responsibilities.
Alan
-
cromercrabholiday
- Posts: 797
- Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2004 10:24 am
- Location: North Norfolk
- Contact:
-
Alan Knighting
- Posts: 4120
- Joined: Mon Oct 18, 2004 7:26 am
- Location: Monflanquin, Lot-et-Garonne, France
John,
It's now up to parents to accept and exercise their responsibilities towards their children. It's no good them coming to me with accusations of blame and demands for compensation if something goes wrong.
They will get enormous understanding and sympathy but they will not get anything else. I am insured against most things but not against parental incompetence.
I was recently told by a neighbour that he found a family of children had been put inside his security fence while the parents went to do some shopping. He took the children out and looked after them until the parents returned. He asked the parents what they thought they were doing and the reply was “it’s a security fence and the children are secure inside it� as though a pool is a play-pen. I ask you, how moronic can some parents be?
Alan
Of course not. I am a responsible and caring person. That's why I installed a pool safety system. I have done my bit both in fact and in law.Couldn't agree more, Alan. I still wouldn't want a child dying in a pool at my property even if it wasn't my fault.
It's now up to parents to accept and exercise their responsibilities towards their children. It's no good them coming to me with accusations of blame and demands for compensation if something goes wrong.
They will get enormous understanding and sympathy but they will not get anything else. I am insured against most things but not against parental incompetence.
I was recently told by a neighbour that he found a family of children had been put inside his security fence while the parents went to do some shopping. He took the children out and looked after them until the parents returned. He asked the parents what they thought they were doing and the reply was “it’s a security fence and the children are secure inside it� as though a pool is a play-pen. I ask you, how moronic can some parents be?
Alan
As you are in Cyprus I has no idea which laws, if any, apply to you. If there are no laws then you are not legally obliged to do anything. But...
If you want to attract families a fenced pool will help. If there is no law in place then it is likely to make you stand out from the crowd. If there is no law then there is no need for it to be a "security" fence. Many garden fences are just as secure as the specialist pool fencing.
In my opinion an alarm does little for security. Obviously if they are legally required then that is a different matter. I tend to think they take the thoug process away from parents. "Jonny can't be at the bottom of the pool because the alarm hasn't gone off" sort of thing. If the alarm did go off whilst (say) the parent in charge were on the toilet they would be unlikely to get to the child in time anyway.
You can by the way get a cheaper alarm, which you strap on to the child, and it is then activated when it comes into contact with water. This has the advantage of going off if there are other water sources, such as garden ponds, as well as the swimming pool, and means there are no false alarms at nightime. It is called turtle something or other. It does not conform to the french law, but is about a third of the price of the normal pool alarms.
Ju
If you want to attract families a fenced pool will help. If there is no law in place then it is likely to make you stand out from the crowd. If there is no law then there is no need for it to be a "security" fence. Many garden fences are just as secure as the specialist pool fencing.
In my opinion an alarm does little for security. Obviously if they are legally required then that is a different matter. I tend to think they take the thoug process away from parents. "Jonny can't be at the bottom of the pool because the alarm hasn't gone off" sort of thing. If the alarm did go off whilst (say) the parent in charge were on the toilet they would be unlikely to get to the child in time anyway.
You can by the way get a cheaper alarm, which you strap on to the child, and it is then activated when it comes into contact with water. This has the advantage of going off if there are other water sources, such as garden ponds, as well as the swimming pool, and means there are no false alarms at nightime. It is called turtle something or other. It does not conform to the french law, but is about a third of the price of the normal pool alarms.
Ju
-
Alan Knighting
- Posts: 4120
- Joined: Mon Oct 18, 2004 7:26 am
- Location: Monflanquin, Lot-et-Garonne, France
Ju,
Failure to comply with the French law can result in a fine of 45,000€ and since the Turtle armbands don’t comply they are useless from the legal point of view. They can only ever be used as an additional security device.
Alan
I’m not going to get into a discussion about the virtues of the four complying pool security systems recognised under French law other to say that an alarm is the only active system, the other three are passive systems. What I mean by that is an alarm tells you that something has entered the pool, a fence does not tell you when it has been breached.In my opinion an alarm does little for security.
Failure to comply with the French law can result in a fine of 45,000€ and since the Turtle armbands don’t comply they are useless from the legal point of view. They can only ever be used as an additional security device.
Alan
Alan, I agree with you on the French law, not worth having a debate about.
I know the turtle system does not comply, I don't have one myself, but I know people who do. I was suggesting it as an alternative to the OP. who is not in France and therefore does not have to comply.
Ju
PS. Have you noticed that the French themselves do not seem to go very uptight about this law, just the british ex-pats!
I know the turtle system does not comply, I don't have one myself, but I know people who do. I was suggesting it as an alternative to the OP. who is not in France and therefore does not have to comply.
Ju
PS. Have you noticed that the French themselves do not seem to go very uptight about this law, just the british ex-pats!
-
Alan Knighting
- Posts: 4120
- Joined: Mon Oct 18, 2004 7:26 am
- Location: Monflanquin, Lot-et-Garonne, France
As I understand it, there are no specific laws in Cyprus for private pools. We do feel it is our responsibility to ensure the pool area is safe for children, we have kids ourselves and I know I wouldn't let them outside if there wasn't a responsible adult with them. I was just in a bit of a dilemma as to whether we should get the fence installed before we have even taken any bookings or should we wait and see what next year brings (i.e what type of bookings we have, families etc). But what I gather is that if we have a fence already and make people aware of that fact, we may get more bookings because of it.
Thanks
Michelle
Thanks
Michelle
Even if there is no law requirement, I think your property would be more attractive to families with young children if the pool was fenced off. A lot of enquiries I get ask specifically if the pool is enclosed. We stayed at a place in France a few years ago before any laws were in place and the pool area was completely open - our friends' daughter was then a marathon crawler and it was a constant worry to us of what might happen as there was no fence.
-
Alan Knighting
- Posts: 4120
- Joined: Mon Oct 18, 2004 7:26 am
- Location: Monflanquin, Lot-et-Garonne, France
Michelle,
One little word of warning from an ex-lawyer.
By all means include the existence of your pool fence in your publicity but do not make great play of the "safety" aspect. If you do you could be deemed to be guaranteeing safety and finish up with a responsibility and a liability you would not otherwise have.
Alan
One little word of warning from an ex-lawyer.
By all means include the existence of your pool fence in your publicity but do not make great play of the "safety" aspect. If you do you could be deemed to be guaranteeing safety and finish up with a responsibility and a liability you would not otherwise have.
Alan
Theoretically, you're supposed to be able to respond to the alarm in 3 minutes. (I'm pretty sure someone could drown in a lot less time than that) I'd say an alarm was no good if you are not in residence. But then again, even if you are, there must be some times when you are not in. Maybe the law is clearer than my understanding of it, or maybe it is a mess!!