We include in our rates a detail final clean. What we mean by this is that we expect the property to be returned in a reasonable final state which we call broom clean.
Up until now this has worked quite well and we never really needed to charge more however a recent experience has us revisiting this delicate balance. We are now offering as an extra a general clean for 50 Euro if people do not want to spend the almost four hours it would take to get the place to broom clean. I dont like the idea of additional charges but I dont want to raise our rates to cover the few people who dont want to do any cleaning.
I am also a bit wary of including all cleaning for three reasons. The first because I think some people really wont care about making a mess if its all inclusive, the second being outpricing the market and thirdly and most importantly, I would be penalising the majority of our really good guests who do make the effort.
What do others think about this and what are your experiences.
Cleaning Charges
I'm speaking with my holiday maker hat on here!
If I rent somewhere, even if it is self catering I expect it to be clean when I arrive, and I assume that there will have been a full clean done by the owner before I arrive. When I leave, I don't expect to have to carry out a full clean (other than leaving the place in a reasonably ordely state), because I feel this is something the owner should be doing anyway, so why double up!
That said, as an owner it would be lovely if someone else would do the cleaning for me!!
If I rent somewhere, even if it is self catering I expect it to be clean when I arrive, and I assume that there will have been a full clean done by the owner before I arrive. When I leave, I don't expect to have to carry out a full clean (other than leaving the place in a reasonably ordely state), because I feel this is something the owner should be doing anyway, so why double up!
That said, as an owner it would be lovely if someone else would do the cleaning for me!!
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Alan Knighting
- Posts: 4120
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- Location: Monflanquin, Lot-et-Garonne, France
Clexane,
This is another item which is so much easier for me to deal with because I live on-site.
The basic deal is that visitors leave the place as they find it. If they don't have the time or the inclination then I charge them. I see them "off the premises" so it's not hard to check.
The reality of the situation is that Joan does a full cleaning job - everything spotless, hob, oven, dishwasher, micro-wave, all floors washed and polished, all carpets vacuumed at every hand-over irrespective of condition. She is not happy with the brush and dust approach so it makes little difference. She gives guests what she herself demands, even fluffy towels.
Alan
This is another item which is so much easier for me to deal with because I live on-site.
The basic deal is that visitors leave the place as they find it. If they don't have the time or the inclination then I charge them. I see them "off the premises" so it's not hard to check.
The reality of the situation is that Joan does a full cleaning job - everything spotless, hob, oven, dishwasher, micro-wave, all floors washed and polished, all carpets vacuumed at every hand-over irrespective of condition. She is not happy with the brush and dust approach so it makes little difference. She gives guests what she herself demands, even fluffy towels.
Alan
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Normandy Cow
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I think it depends upon where you are renting, and who you are renting from.
I can only speak for France. The standard holiday home rental in France was originally known as a "gite". You rented the property, but you always had to take everything with you. By that I mean linen, towels, tea towels, all cleaning products, salt, pepper, toilet paper, everything. If you look at the Gites de France website, this is what they say:
French people know the score, and that is why they always leave places so clean. (I have a particular memory of renting a gite in the Charente when my children were aged 18 months and 4 years, and on our departure, having struggled to get everything packed to leave at 10am as requested, madame went round and inspected and pointed out all the things I had not cleaned to the required high standard, and even made me scrub the inside of the oven whilst she stood over me and my family were waiting for me outside
).
Even now, we rent an apartment on a small 3-star complex on the Ile de Re every year, and nothing is included (even though a small 2-bedroom apt costs the same to rent per week as my lovely big house with everything included). Most of the other apartments are rented by French families, and the wives (rarely the husbands I'm afraid to report ) seem to spend most of the last day scrubbing and cleaning. It's almost a competition amongst them to see who will leave it the cleanest. I, on the other hand, pay the extra (70 Euros!!!!) cleaning charge as I don't intend to waste a second of my holiday.
Anyway Clexane, to get back to your original question, we don't include final cleaning in our charges, we expect people to leave the house "as they found it", but we also offer an optional cleaning service for £30:
Whichever option they choose, we have a cleaner who does 2 hours cleaning between every let, and if they have chosen the extra cleaning service she knows that she may have to do up to 5 hours.
So far, in 3 years, I have never had to deduct anything extra from the security deposit.
I can only speak for France. The standard holiday home rental in France was originally known as a "gite". You rented the property, but you always had to take everything with you. By that I mean linen, towels, tea towels, all cleaning products, salt, pepper, toilet paper, everything. If you look at the Gites de France website, this is what they say:
Not even the top category (5 Ears of Corn) includes cleaning as standard.Depending on the category, sheets, household linen and cleaning service may be available on request.
French people know the score, and that is why they always leave places so clean. (I have a particular memory of renting a gite in the Charente when my children were aged 18 months and 4 years, and on our departure, having struggled to get everything packed to leave at 10am as requested, madame went round and inspected and pointed out all the things I had not cleaned to the required high standard, and even made me scrub the inside of the oven whilst she stood over me and my family were waiting for me outside
). Even now, we rent an apartment on a small 3-star complex on the Ile de Re every year, and nothing is included (even though a small 2-bedroom apt costs the same to rent per week as my lovely big house with everything included). Most of the other apartments are rented by French families, and the wives (rarely the husbands I'm afraid to report
) seem to spend most of the last day scrubbing and cleaning. It's almost a competition amongst them to see who will leave it the cleanest. I, on the other hand, pay the extra (70 Euros!!!!) cleaning charge as I don't intend to waste a second of my holiday.Anyway Clexane, to get back to your original question, we don't include final cleaning in our charges, we expect people to leave the house "as they found it", but we also offer an optional cleaning service for £30:
The property is always inspected between lets to ensure it is clean and tidy on your arrival. As per the terms of the rental agreement, please leave the house as you found it. If the house is not left in this state, the house manager will have to hire extra people to do the job, and if necessary, will deduct the extra charges at 20 Euros per hour from your deposit. However, should you prefer, final cleaning can be arranged in advance at a cost of £30.00.
Whichever option they choose, we have a cleaner who does 2 hours cleaning between every let, and if they have chosen the extra cleaning service she knows that she may have to do up to 5 hours.
So far, in 3 years, I have never had to deduct anything extra from the security deposit.
I state that the house should be left as they found it and if it is in a particularly bad state I will take something out of their deposit (never had to do it so far). It takes my cleaner and me about 12 man hours do do all the cleaning in the summer for the three houses after the British guests, less than half that for the French guests. Our cleaning standard is as per Joan's mentioned in Alan's post above.
The sort of things I object to are:-pots and pans and washing up being left for me to do(especially as there are dishwashers), sticky sweets on furniture, furniture which has been shifted around and not replaced in the original position or worse, room, dirty barbecues and bags of rubbish left for me to take to the bin. Also, if one group occupies more than one house, inventory which is moved to a different house and not put back. Any of the above and people are not leaving the house in the way they found it.
I don't want to go down the road of having extra charges so this approach works for me.
The sort of things I object to are:-pots and pans and washing up being left for me to do(especially as there are dishwashers), sticky sweets on furniture, furniture which has been shifted around and not replaced in the original position or worse, room, dirty barbecues and bags of rubbish left for me to take to the bin. Also, if one group occupies more than one house, inventory which is moved to a different house and not put back. Any of the above and people are not leaving the house in the way they found it.
I don't want to go down the road of having extra charges so this approach works for me.
Different approaches it seems.
Susan and Alan, I agree that the villa must be spotless for the next guests. That is why we include the detail final clean because anybody on holidays wont get to the detail we expect. That means going into every detail. To focus on this level of detail we really expect that our guests give us the broom clean standard and if they don't we will be short on man hours to get it all done with our one cleaner.
It has worked for more than 30 lets and just now we have run into a difficult guest who left it dirty and wouldn't pay when asked. My guidance to the caretaker was to let it go and I will top them up simply because I don't want to ruin our guests holiday even if they are not doing the right thing. Its the price of wanting to offer the five star service and we are taking it on the chin.
Thus the "change" of policy of actually bringing up the general clean charge - it is a bid to prevent the expecations being mismatched again. I really am bothered though because I feel that we are being more imposing because of one bad case where most are fine.
CatherineS you are right about the different nationalities. It is amazing how clean the French leave the place, moreso, how much time they seem to put into it - I would just pay the additional charge but some actually seem to enjoy it !!!!
Susan, We hand the place other so squeaking clean I could never expect them to give it back to the same standard - I just want them to give it back in a reasonable standard.
I reallly do wonder if you have had no problems because you say upfront about it needing to be returned in the same state and don't mention that you include the final detail clean?
Alan do you find it a battle when you have had to charge people - or do they just pay up?
Susan and Alan, I agree that the villa must be spotless for the next guests. That is why we include the detail final clean because anybody on holidays wont get to the detail we expect. That means going into every detail. To focus on this level of detail we really expect that our guests give us the broom clean standard and if they don't we will be short on man hours to get it all done with our one cleaner.
It has worked for more than 30 lets and just now we have run into a difficult guest who left it dirty and wouldn't pay when asked. My guidance to the caretaker was to let it go and I will top them up simply because I don't want to ruin our guests holiday even if they are not doing the right thing. Its the price of wanting to offer the five star service and we are taking it on the chin.
Thus the "change" of policy of actually bringing up the general clean charge - it is a bid to prevent the expecations being mismatched again. I really am bothered though because I feel that we are being more imposing because of one bad case where most are fine.
CatherineS you are right about the different nationalities. It is amazing how clean the French leave the place, moreso, how much time they seem to put into it - I would just pay the additional charge but some actually seem to enjoy it !!!!
Susan, We hand the place other so squeaking clean I could never expect them to give it back to the same standard - I just want them to give it back in a reasonable standard.
I reallly do wonder if you have had no problems because you say upfront about it needing to be returned in the same state and don't mention that you include the final detail clean?
Alan do you find it a battle when you have had to charge people - or do they just pay up?
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Bellywobble
- Posts: 1262
- Joined: Thu Jan 19, 2006 7:40 pm
When we rented in France we were given the option of doing the cleaning ourselves or paying extra. We decided to pay extra. I only remembered this however when I was halfway through giving it a clean on the last day. All was well though as they refunded most of the cleaning charge as their cleaner said she didn't have to do much! I was delighted with this, not so much as getting money back, but just to know my efforts hadn't gone unnoticed.
In our rental apartment, we include a clean in the price. Sometimes I have felt guilty taking the full amount of money, but as I pay my cleaner (my 15 year old son) per clean, regardless of condition, refunds are not an option. I do tend to email and say "thank you for leaving it so clean".
In our rental apartment, we include a clean in the price. Sometimes I have felt guilty taking the full amount of money, but as I pay my cleaner (my 15 year old son) per clean, regardless of condition, refunds are not an option. I do tend to email and say "thank you for leaving it so clean".
Clexane,
After a couple of 'bad' experiences such as yours, last year I added it to the (un)welcome notes. Since I have done this and mentioned that any 'over and above' the norm cleaning costs will be deducted from the security deposit, I've had no problems - touch wood. Most even clean the barbecue (my least favourite job). I also ask them to strip the beds and they have done this too, which saves quite a bit of time on changeover day.
After a couple of 'bad' experiences such as yours, last year I added it to the (un)welcome notes. Since I have done this and mentioned that any 'over and above' the norm cleaning costs will be deducted from the security deposit, I've had no problems - touch wood. Most even clean the barbecue (my least favourite job). I also ask them to strip the beds and they have done this too, which saves quite a bit of time on changeover day.
Final clean is included in the normal rental price, but if we rent the villa on a 'special offer' i.e. anything from 30% discount, then we charge for final clean. We do however state on our T&C's that if the villa is left in an exceptionally dirty condition then we reserve the right to deduct £25 from the damage deposit for the extra man hours cleaning. This clause seems to have worked as so far we haven't had to levy that charge! Irrespective, we still do a thorough clean (approx. 4 hours) for new arrivals.
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Linda Freese
- Posts: 175
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- Location: Costa del Sol
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Alan Knighting
- Posts: 4120
- Joined: Mon Oct 18, 2004 7:26 am
- Location: Monflanquin, Lot-et-Garonne, France
Clexane,
Don't tell anybody, this is a state secret. In seven years we have never asked for a damages deposit and we have never needed one.
Alan
No, Joan and I welcome guests when they arrive, we entertain them once while they are here and we see them off again.Alan do you find it a battle when you have had to charge people - or do they just pay up?
Don't tell anybody, this is a state secret. In seven years we have never asked for a damages deposit and we have never needed one.
Alan
Alan, I'm the same! Only breakages in 4 years has been the odd cup which people have left couple of quid for and asked for it to go to the charity we support if not used for replacements and a lampshade which the guy left £10 for.
Only once I would have kicked off about how the place was left (our ebay "guests") so I reckon we're doing okay so far. Not living on site I'd find it more of a hinderance to check the place out on departure. I have great cleaners I wouldn't be without -Dave and I
I think I mentioned in a previous post that my sister once did a changeover for me. Being a natural worrier I was just hoping she'd do the place to our standards (knowing that she of course would). My fears were unfounded when the guests left a £5 tip for the "caretaker" for the beautiful appearance and cleanliness of the place, the cleanest they'd stayed in!!
Only once I would have kicked off about how the place was left (our ebay "guests") so I reckon we're doing okay so far. Not living on site I'd find it more of a hinderance to check the place out on departure. I have great cleaners I wouldn't be without -Dave and I
I think I mentioned in a previous post that my sister once did a changeover for me. Being a natural worrier I was just hoping she'd do the place to our standards (knowing that she of course would). My fears were unfounded when the guests left a £5 tip for the "caretaker" for the beautiful appearance and cleanliness of the place, the cleanest they'd stayed in!!
Ditto again. Unless proved otherwise I assume people are honest and careful - I am also not one for pinning warning notices all over the place either.paolo wrote:Ditto.Alan Knighting wrote:Don't tell anybody, this is a state secret. In seven years we have never asked for a damages deposit and we have never needed one.
Our bookings are all from HR website or recommendations so we would turn a booking down from the start if it didnt feel right.
I think the cleaning expectations may perhaps vary in different countries? In Tenerife I am almost certain most people would expect an end of stay clean to be automatically included and so I would prefer that the lady who manages our apartment does the clean anyway, then I know it is going to be 100% right for the next guests. She is not the cheapest, £40 for a studio, but I can depend on her completely and guests have commented how well the apartment looks on arrival. Obviously if I lived nearby or on site then it would be totally different, I could check and rectify things if necessary.
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Highams Park Harry
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cleaners and dirtiers
Paolo, suspect my arguement with guests thread might belong on here
newbies based in the UK but we take damage deposits and routinely return them in full with thanks, the place is handed over clean and ready and invariably handed back in need of not much more than a buff and polish
except for the last people, all hell kicking off over a deduction from their deposit for a lot of cleaning and scrubbing
I did consider letting it slide and swallowing the cleaning cost for a quiet life, they've gone mental with complaints all of a sudden, despite telling my sister on day one that all was ok, and telling me they'd enjoyed their holiday when they asked for their deposit back on the day they returned, pleased I've got that email now I have to say
newbies based in the UK but we take damage deposits and routinely return them in full with thanks, the place is handed over clean and ready and invariably handed back in need of not much more than a buff and polish
except for the last people, all hell kicking off over a deduction from their deposit for a lot of cleaning and scrubbing
I did consider letting it slide and swallowing the cleaning cost for a quiet life, they've gone mental with complaints all of a sudden, despite telling my sister on day one that all was ok, and telling me they'd enjoyed their holiday when they asked for their deposit back on the day they returned, pleased I've got that email now I have to say
Dordogne Holiday Cottage, sleeps eight
http://www.ruedelagare.co.uk
http://www.ruedelagare.co.uk