OK, but just to underline my point and offer let me say gently that as this is a forum for "holiday rental owners" in the plural shouldn't laymyhat.com be " The Rental Owners' Guide" - we are plural there as well? Now that is pedantry! Being Irish makes me curiously sensitive to English grammar - my father claimed "an Irishman's regard for the English language".Don't worry, there will be no typos - I am a copywriter and very pedantic!
A pedant's guide to apostrophes
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sleekitbeastie
- Posts: 45
- Joined: Thu Dec 02, 2004 10:04 am
No - it can be either. I used to edit a Buyer's Guide and spent longer than is healthy deciding whether it should be a Buyers' Guide instead. In the end I decided I wanted to be talking to the individual, as is the case here.as this is a forum for "holiday rental owners" in the plural shouldn't laymyhat.com be "The Rental Owners' Guide"
Paolo
Lay My Hat
Lay My Hat
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sleekitbeastie
- Posts: 45
- Joined: Thu Dec 02, 2004 10:04 am
No it can't. The rule is actually quite simple. If there is a single buyer or owner then it is 's; if there is more than one owner then it's s'. That is the standard rule of English. Check Fowler's (There was just the one Fowler) or any other authority. If you are addressing a single owner than you had better tell us which one so that the rest of us don't read it!paolo wrote:No - it can be either. I used to edit a Buyer's Guide and spent longer than is healthy deciding whether it should be a Buyers' Guide instead. In the end I decided I wanted to be talking to the individual, as is the case here.as this is a forum for "holiday rental owners" in the plural shouldn't laymyhat.com be "The Rental Owners' Guide"
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livinginitaly
- Posts: 202
- Joined: Fri Oct 29, 2004 4:46 pm
- Location: Italy (at last!)
- Contact:
ah ... that old chestnut!
I was deciding on the subtitle for one of my sites and came up with ....
"a traveller's and settler's guide" Much discussion ensued about the apostrophes between my friends and colleagues, to the point where we actually made a post at the 'Apostrophe Protection Society' website.
What resulted was on of the longest threads that they had running at the time! With some excellent 'expert' advice and opinions.
Armed with that advice, i'd say you are both right .... either / or is acceptable depending on 'viewpoint'.
From the viewpoint of the 'reader' my site was a "traveller's and settler's guide" because that traveller and / or settler used it.
From the viewpoint of the 'majority' my site was a "travellers' and settlers' guide" because it could be used by many travellers and / or settlers.
From the viewpoint of the 'author', my site was a "travellers and settlers guide" because it was aimed at people who travel and / or settle.
In my own case, i eventually 'settled' on "a guide for travellers and settlers"
Hope that helps (though i know it wont)
I was deciding on the subtitle for one of my sites and came up with ....
"a traveller's and settler's guide" Much discussion ensued about the apostrophes between my friends and colleagues, to the point where we actually made a post at the 'Apostrophe Protection Society' website.
What resulted was on of the longest threads that they had running at the time! With some excellent 'expert' advice and opinions.
Armed with that advice, i'd say you are both right .... either / or is acceptable depending on 'viewpoint'.
From the viewpoint of the 'reader' my site was a "traveller's and settler's guide" because that traveller and / or settler used it.
From the viewpoint of the 'majority' my site was a "travellers' and settlers' guide" because it could be used by many travellers and / or settlers.
From the viewpoint of the 'author', my site was a "travellers and settlers guide" because it was aimed at people who travel and / or settle.
In my own case, i eventually 'settled' on "a guide for travellers and settlers"
Hope that helps (though i know it wont)
Nobody would dispute that. However, 'Rental Owners' Guide' is an abbreviated form of 'Guide for Rental Owners'. I prefer 'Guide for the Rental Owner' - hence 'Rental Owner's Guide'.If there is a single buyer or owner then it is 's; if there is more than one owner then it's s'.
Let's not lose sleep over it!
Paolo
Lay My Hat
Lay My Hat
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sleekitbeastie
- Posts: 45
- Joined: Thu Dec 02, 2004 10:04 am
I love the Apostrophe Protection Society and this is an interesting response - however the enthusiasts aren't always right. How many times do you hear such enthusiast claim that the correct plural of referendum is referenda? My point was the site headed Owner's makes reference to plural owners no fewer than 6 times on the first page. One or the other Paulo, not both.livinginitaly wrote:ah ... that old chestnut!
I was deciding on the subtitle for one of my sites and came up with ....
"a traveller's and settler's guide" Much discussion ensued about the apostrophes between my friends and colleagues, to the point where we actually made a post at the 'Apostrophe Protection Society' website.
What resulted was on of the longest threads that they had running at the time! With some excellent 'expert' advice and opinions.
Armed with that advice, i'd say you are both right .... either / or is acceptable depending on 'viewpoint'.
From the viewpoint of the 'reader' my site was a "traveller's and settler's guide" because that traveller and / or settler used it.
From the viewpoint of the 'author', my site was a "travellers and settlers guide" because it was aimed at people who travel and / or settle.
In my own case, i eventually 'settled' on "a guide for travellers and settlers"
Hope that helps (though i know it wont)
We use editors who have held positions as copy or chief copy editor on weighty reference works as Grove, OED, DNB .... I invariably defer to their judgement - I value my life too much. The verdict was unanimous. If there were 6 sets of owners in the body of the text then the heading should also refer to owners in the plural.
That is my final posting on the subject - it isn't worth it.
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sleekitbeastie
- Posts: 45
- Joined: Thu Dec 02, 2004 10:04 am
At last i have found a group as pedantic as myself. I was already wondering if I should have registered (first post today) as I have already spotted a couple of references to FORUMS.
Am I the only person who shouts stadia, referenda and FORA at the radio-or indeed finds my wrath rising when I hear an otherwise educated oerson on the radio say that TV is the correct media (medium please) to use for whatever the subject is.
Sorry I feel better now-perhaps its bedtime!!!
Am I the only person who shouts stadia, referenda and FORA at the radio-or indeed finds my wrath rising when I hear an otherwise educated oerson on the radio say that TV is the correct media (medium please) to use for whatever the subject is.
Sorry I feel better now-perhaps its bedtime!!!
Welcome Fiona,
I think you will find at least two of us here are like-minded, but I draw the line at fora, because who will know what it means? It looks like a mis-spelling of flora.
A couple of years ago I heard a radio interview with the spokesperson for the Wembley Stadium bid (when the location of the new stadium was in doubt), and she said over and over again 'this stadia...' She clearly thought she was being very clever. Needless to say they won the bid.
I think you will find at least two of us here are like-minded, but I draw the line at fora, because who will know what it means? It looks like a mis-spelling of flora.
A couple of years ago I heard a radio interview with the spokesperson for the Wembley Stadium bid (when the location of the new stadium was in doubt), and she said over and over again 'this stadia...' She clearly thought she was being very clever. Needless to say they won the bid.
Paolo
Lay My Hat
Lay My Hat
Since you're all having such fun, let me join in.
Fiona ("Am I the only person who shouts stadia, referenda and FORA at the radio-or indeed finds my wrath rising ") - why didn't you write i)"or indeed finds her wrath rising"?
or ii)or indeed finds his/her wrath rising?
or iii)or indeed finds her/his wrath rising?
(Anybody out there who thinks another possibility would be "finds his wrath rising" - go back to 1900 and forfeit your rental property.......)
Fiona ("Am I the only person who shouts stadia, referenda and FORA at the radio-or indeed finds my wrath rising ") - why didn't you write i)"or indeed finds her wrath rising"?
or ii)or indeed finds his/her wrath rising?
or iii)or indeed finds her/his wrath rising?
(Anybody out there who thinks another possibility would be "finds his wrath rising" - go back to 1900 and forfeit your rental property.......)
Best,
Alexia.
Alexia.
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sleekitbeastie
- Posts: 45
- Joined: Thu Dec 02, 2004 10:04 am
Stadia OK, fora OK but referenda NO! Stadium and forum can reasonably be said to have Latin form plurals as they are Latin nouns. Referendum is not a Latin noun so there is no basis to claim a Latin form plural. Just for the super-pedantic referendum in Latin is a gerund and therefore has no plural form. One might just as well invent a normal English plural as a false Latin one. I know this because when I shouted ‘referenda’ at the radio I quickly realised that the voice which answered was the editor of the OED and I’m sure he got a higher mark that the 8% I got in Latin.Fiona wrote:Am I the only person who shouts stadia, referenda and FORA
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Alan Knighting
- Posts: 4120
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- Location: Monflanquin, Lot-et-Garonne, France