Lay My Hat

Hi All,

I mentioned previously some cancellations. One of these was for a long booking of 27 days, it was cancelled about 7 weeks before the start date. This was via HL who kept their booking fee but provided us our share of the 25% deposit. They booked about 2 months before they cancelled.

We told the guest at the time we would try and refund if we could resell the dates, or on a pro rata basis as a gesture of good will. We are not obliged to give any as the 25% deposit is not refundable. We were only able to sell 10 days of the 27 they had booked. Over this period last year we sold 18 days (short breaks).

I am not hard nosed enough to say they get nothing back so want to be fair. What should I offer back? We sold 1/3rd of the number of days .

Your thoughts would be appreciated.

How do you know that if you had never taken their booking, but kept those dates open you may not have sold all 27 days ?

Just because you sold fewer last year does not mean it would be the same this year.

The booking deposit secured the dates for them, and for that they must pay a price. Clearly I'm arguing for zero refund, but if you need to, there probably is some wiggle room. Just less than you may have initially thought.

My twopence worth

I tend to agree with Richard

I am a bit of a softy and usually have refunded anything I subsequently get from a last minute booking ( without holding back any admin fee) when someone has cancelled owing to family illness. I give them the choice of a later booking at a good discount or a refund of anything I get when they tell me they are cancelling.

These days holiday insurance is free with many bank accounts and your guests have the choice to take out insurance if they wish.

You made unavailable 27 nights and were paid for 6.75 of those nights (25%). The moment you re-book more than 20.25 nights (75%) you can refund the difference. You only booked 11 nights so there is no refund.

We as owners often fail to factor our time in such equations. I'd say 20% of the deposit value but also remember the guest will likely be insured so potentially will not be out of pocket at all.

7 Aspire wrote:Value of full booking minus Value of relet period = Your loss

If Your loss is greater than Deposit Received, then Refund = 0

If Deposit Received is greater than Your loss, then refund the difference.

That's it in essence.

I'm interested to understand the thinking that says that following somebody causing an owner to lose money, the owner should feel the need to dip into his/her own pocket, increase their loss, and make a gift to the person who has caused that loss.

Anyone?

I also don't get the need to keep asking this question. You go by your T&Cs, if they say the deposit is lost, then the deposit is lost. The guests who cancel should have travel insurance, if they don't then that was their gamble. The owner should not feel guilty in any way.

IF you are feeling generous then 7Aspire has hit the nail on the head.

Hi All,

Against your advice I offered pro rata refund (1/3rd) of the deposit payment that HL sent me.

Just had an irate message back that since they had not cancelled without good reason (the very close relative they were coming to visit had sadly passed away) and that they gave plenty notice (42 days). They think I am being unreasonable. With many properties taking full payment before 42 days I think I am more than reasonable.

I would have thought that an insurance company would pay up on the cancellation of a trip for this sort of reason. I offered them support for any insurance claim at the time but they did not respond. I am inclined to withdraw the offer of the refund that I made yesterday.

I can feel a negative trip advisor review coming..... Will Trip Advisor let them review when they didn't stay?

Just another update. They suggested I check the obituary to confirm their case. It was 4 weeks after their loss that they decided to change their plans. I feel a bit of a fool. I do really feel for anyone who has lost a close relative, it can be a very difficult time but if they took that long to change their minds I really don't feel I should have offered anything. as you all told me in the first place!

Hello Ianh100,
I am really sorry for the way in which these almost guests have responded to you. There is no excuse really for their behaviour - I presume they are emailing you and therefore have a chance to consider what they are saying.

I hope it doesn't cloud your view when you have to deal with other cancellations in the future.

If I were you I would post them a cheque for the refund you offered and would not engage in any further communication with them. If you have any TCs I would enclose them with the cheque and run a highlighter through the part that says they would not be entitled to a refund and anything else about holiday insurance. The reason I suggest a cheque is that they will have to make a conscious decision to go and pay it into the bank if they want any money from you.

Try not to worry, they are not worth it. You have been more than fair.

Interestingly, I would doubt that an insurance company would pay for a holiday cancelled four weeks after a bereavement unless there were some particular circumstances causing a delay in a funeral. I know my insurance company expect me to tell them about any ill relatives at the time I make the holiday booking or else they would not honour the payment.

Genuine people would actually feel that a holiday would be a blessing or at least some help after a bereavement....

Thanks Zebedee

Things are a little complex as they live in the US so I cant just post a cheque. The relative they lost was the one in the UK they were coming to visit.

I assume that probably came over for the funeral and then decided that the longer trip back 6 weeks later was no longer necessary. hardly a rash decision on their part but it has made a significant hole in our income even if we gave no refund at all.

We clearly need to harden up, it is 3 years tomorrow since we bought our place, we need to run it more like a business rather than welcoming others to a place we love to stay.

You could point out to them that under Contract Law, as they are in breach of the contract you are entitled to recover any losses from them, which would be rather more than the amount of the deposit they paid. So they owe you money, but as a gesture of goodwill you are waiving what they owe you and returning some of their payment as well. Sign off with "Regards and GFY, Yours etc....."

ETA: What's the problem with posting them a Sterling cheque, even if they are in the US? They'll have to pick up any charges, exchange rate variations etc, but it's a goodwill payment - not an identified amount which they're entitled to receive in full.

I would not have refunded any of their deposit, but may have refunded some of their balance if they had already paid it, providing I succeeded in reletting the property. Their reason for cancellation, or indeed for their reason for booking in the first place is irrelevant to the terms of the contract. In this case, as they only paid the deposit to you, I really don't understand why they think they are entitled to a refund.

Thanks Zebedee

Things are a little complex as they live in the US so I cant just post a cheque. The relative they lost was the one in the UK they were coming to visit.

I assume that probably came over for the funeral and then decided that the longer trip back 6 weeks later was no longer necessary. hardly a rash decision on their part but it has made a significant hole in our income even if we gave no refund at all.

We clearly need to harden up, it is 3 years tomorrow since we bought our place, we need to run it more like a business rather than welcoming others to a place we love to stay.